From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234D01381F3 for ; Thu, 16 May 2013 01:20:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 836A0E089F; Thu, 16 May 2013 01:20:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com (mail-oa0-f52.google.com [209.85.219.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 993EDE088C for ; Thu, 16 May 2013 01:20:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id h1so3093551oag.11 for ; Wed, 15 May 2013 18:20:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=3SKATAG4RxaMf55IDkvW1iOIzsH3SC8DI38cVqGYkPo=; b=ccSc4HkQWWdAriwA+OI84BoBo/VM2rLa0jc80ZVMM4KUswF//Y8JT6VByj/MNmtyoD XIy78kqF/A6uiBYcnxhYo0hDbfI5sWso1achONOyO4yKQ4GjK4uG02oqYgbHtVenWSFa ttCa+PTpa7i3snqDCDKUHSRkImtfPRlV9vgk0MQde3yXZ7u3STtNWDqZqDJlqSIGJCl5 fki7gDUwHS6VQqnS1By9utSKAn70yLu/eoYx5cNtvXmiL7gUU0yISNeN2eDO2Lw9ZDAJ ZF4kSHFdZrM9c86RxegBzkJIevW8Q/uey9sot6ZM1ovj/lSywVtpYg5HM60lcr7TasjY MK7w== X-Received: by 10.182.230.198 with SMTP id ta6mr18481672obc.98.1368667212790; Wed, 15 May 2013 18:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux1 (cpe-76-187-91-128.tx.res.rr.com. [76.187.91.128]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w7sm5670963obx.9.2013.05.15.18.20.09 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 15 May 2013 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: William Hubbs Received: by linux1 (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 15 May 2013 20:20:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:20:08 -0500 From: William Hubbs To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users Message-ID: <20130516012008.GC8711@linux1> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20130508190832.0ea16c88@gentoo.org> <518A8901.6030302@gmail.com> <20130510094500.62b0c958@sera-20.lan> <5191F8B7.9080006@gentoo.org> <20130515141755.4d53f21e@gentoo.org> <20130515181813.GA27396@waltdnes.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OBd5C1Lgu00Gd/Tn" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130515181813.GA27396@waltdnes.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Archives-Salt: c29801d5-8d11-4492-babc-d95703e4331a X-Archives-Hash: 10c3f1c89234e4c5687f72982d727bee --OBd5C1Lgu00Gd/Tn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 02:18:13PM -0400, waltdnes@waltdnes.org wrote: > On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 03:41:31PM +0200, Fabio Erculiani wrote > > Are we realizing that in order to keep systemd out of our way, we're > > currently writing and maintaining drop-in replacements for the > > features that systemd is already providing in an actively maintained > > state? openrc-settingsd was the first thing that we as Gentoo > > developers (Pacho?) had to write in order to merge GNOME 3.6 into our > > tree. >=20 > So Redhat, who are heavily into GNOME > ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Red_Hat_contributions#GNOME_developers ) > decided to make GNOME depend on other Redhat-developed software (systemd > and pulseadio). Well... like... dohhhh... >=20 > Question... when Sun made OpenOffice depend on Java (also a Sun > product) did Gentoo developers run around suggesting that Java be made a > part of the core Gentoo base system? I don't think so. If a user wants > to run GNOME badly enough, he'll switch to systemd. I don't see why the > rest of us (i.e. non-users of GNOME) should have to follow along and > reconfigure our systems. This is a case of the tail wagging the dog. =20 I don't interpret what he is saying that way. I think what he is talking about is that we are trying to get teams to support non-systemd setups when upstreams do not, like with gnome. Gnome now has a hard dependency on systemd (for gnome newer than 3.8). Some folks want to use gnome without systemd and are putting that under the gentoo is about choice banner and want us to support them. > > So what do we want to do then? Isolate from the rest of the world? > > (It's not a sarcastic question). I hope that everybody does their > > own reality check. >=20 > You are effectively calling not-using-GNOME isolationist. Let's just > say I disagree with you on that. BTW, see my sig. See above. William --OBd5C1Lgu00Gd/Tn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGUNEgACgkQblQW9DDEZTgFRQCgpQXX6DjSnLWtHMbuabr0UtfZ c8cAoInx7sbSX+89t3HDSG80JvaX8N00 =+app -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OBd5C1Lgu00Gd/Tn--