From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6BE1381F3 for ; Thu, 2 May 2013 20:25:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72DC0E0AE0; Thu, 2 May 2013 20:25:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yh0-f54.google.com (mail-yh0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 925D3E0ABA for ; Thu, 2 May 2013 20:25:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yh0-f54.google.com with SMTP id b12so163682yha.13 for ; Thu, 02 May 2013 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=FxyLAUj7UA3xmqUIsfOp39bbxgHFALbOoYXEN+xTttk=; b=LhciUGN7lmqbX78BI5aT5FR0He6VSHxuCBnulxVTKYWTvlscRe622PzBdNq46vnPg+ /94XCr0gUEFgsdE/5/3QqwtN6zmzIh6Gg/T8/pd2cACBoWveDfRqipIyv07DbSSzZFk2 DktUiBJo7Tf+QTFylBShr6DDKoW/ga8VySHGwNbsfrelK3MvMJv6uJFw1WVWg7sIrSUC t9Zk6et4gMslL7JI6IdKlbVKr1xLgD0fth/bSAnrzPxTmJGH+ZBVZyoUHghhrqs1yPAf iZUSuSkKEqF+urJ1aursKOT/d5A5XCbXMrwBPCO9akdeQkg6i2G0ksSv+geHZ2JPO5CW xNig== X-Received: by 10.236.151.197 with SMTP id b45mr6363267yhk.89.1367526322536; Thu, 02 May 2013 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux1 (cpe-76-187-91-128.tx.res.rr.com. [76.187.91.128]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j27sm15235006yhf.18.2013.05.02.13.25.19 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 02 May 2013 13:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Sender: William Hubbs Received: by linux1 (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 02 May 2013 15:25:18 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:25:18 -0500 From: William Hubbs To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users Message-ID: <20130502202518.GB25143@linux1> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <51817269.40707@gentoo.org> <20130502031819.GB20292@linux1> <20130502180519.GA25143@linux1> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Archives-Salt: 337b7751-d71a-4d0b-91e6-434c2593af8a X-Archives-Hash: 5f3027278efc5c027206fdab44447029 --FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 03:39:25PM -0400, Mike Gilbert wrote: > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote: > >> > >> If you manually write your own configuration for GRUB2, it is no more > >> convoluted than for GRUB Legacy. > >> > >> If you use grub-mkconfig to generate a configuration file, you can > >> append the init option by setting > >> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=3D"init=3D/usr/lib/systemd/systemd" in > >> /etc/default/grub. > > > > Not all the Gentoo users are as skilled as you (a developer). Having a > > programmatic, bootloader agnostic way to swap /sbin/init is useful for > > the reasons I explained. Yet I haven't read any solid reason not to do > > that. > > >=20 > I was just providing some technical insight as the maintainer of that > package; I didn't mean to set off another tangent, but oh well. >=20 > Editing a configuration file does not require some great level of > skill. I think you give our users too little credit. Give them > good/simple documentation, and they can run with it. Agreed. All of our users who have installed Gentoo by following the handbook know how to edit configuration files since there are several they are required to edit as part of the installation process. You have to do some work to maintain a Gentoo system. We are not and do not claim to be a distro where everything "just works" out of the box. > I am not strongly opposed your eselect module for init; I just think > it is unnecessary. Adjusting a bootloader config is not the mystical > impossibility that you seem to make it out to be. If it were, we would > have automated it along with kernel building and initramfs generation. =20 Right. I think it is completely unnecessary given what we consider the basic knowledge level of our users. It causes more work for the developers with no gain for users. William --FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGCy64ACgkQblQW9DDEZTjRtQCcDbakGNSQvWMGCcPB0SEmy77K /nEAn1LNhgg6OL4iJqt6xHypS55RnGIN =Dr5I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW--