From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787A11381F3 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E859DE0BD8; Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:34:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtpout.karoo.kcom.com (smtpout.karoo.kcom.com [212.50.160.34]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5655E0A03 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:34:09 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,553,1363132800"; d="scan'208";a="11566498" Received: from unknown (HELO rathaus.eclipse.co.uk) ([91.85.36.46]) by smtpout.karoo.kcom.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2013 21:34:08 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:01:05 +0100 From: "Steven J. Long" To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: rfc: oldnet scripts splitting out from OpenRC Message-ID: <20130425210105.GB1479@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20130424161606.GA1607@linux1> <51780F2D.7060007@gentoo.org> <20130424172323.GB2323@linux1> <201304241334.37807.vapier@gentoo.org> <20130424175407.GA2404@linux1> <20130424183025.GA2477@linux1> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130424183025.GA2477@linux1> X-Archives-Salt: a73de68c-1649-46f8-8617-5e31086f0c93 X-Archives-Hash: 385ecf00f6a444d598989465ec0b153a On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:30:25PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 02:16:51PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:54 PM, William Hubbs wrote: > > > if we keep a dependency for a while, even behind something like > > > IUSE="+oldnet", when we drop it, people will still be hit if they do > > > emerge --depclean before they emerge gentoo-oldnet. > > > > > > Also, (although I don't really care about this much because we tell people > > > not to do it), folks who set USE="-* foo bar bas" in their make.conf would > > > get hit immediately with this solution. > > > > > > Am I missing something? It just seems like this is putting off the > > > emerge command people will need to run for a while. I'm with the others: I don't think you ever want to 'drop' that default flag, at least not without equivalent functionality, which seems not to be provided by other methods at this point. An end-user can always turn it off, and people who use -* are supposed to know what they're doing. The name is troublesome given that we're discussing basic networking. > > It seems to me like network support needs to be some kind of default > > for Gentoo. A USE default is probably one of the least intrusive ways > > to do that - and we can always have an ewarn in the event both are > > suppressed (those who override all USE defaults should be on the > > lookout for trouble). > > > > Considering our default configuration ships sshd (an argument we don't > > need to rehash here), it seems a bit silly to not ship networking > > support by default. I'd rather not do it as part of the system set, > > though that would be consistent with what we're doing with ssh, and it > > is still override-able. > > If we did this as part of @system, it would have to be a virtual imo, > since there are several things in the tree that can manage networks > (openrc[newnet], dhcpcd, wicd, nm, etc), but this is a topic for another > thread. > > For OpenRC-0.12, I will put in the +oldnet use flag as suggested > previously if we go ahead with the split. Thanks, that sounds reasonable: one minor nitpick, though. Could you not call it 'stdnet'? Since from all the other discussion it appears like this is not going away soon for the vast majority of users, but simply being maintained as another package, which makes sense. And it is the standard Gentoo networking setup. That way, 'newnet' is clearly a more modern variant, but no-one's disparaging the traditional setup, which is after all, still the default. Regards, steveL. -- #friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)