From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC22B1381F3 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 17:54:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ED8E2E0B66; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 17:54:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-f45.google.com (mail-oa0-f45.google.com [209.85.219.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0386AE0A9C for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 17:54:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id o17so1973528oag.4 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=l1QldxVyZOnt50tFAcvhjS5duy/fJTfcG4CBfAcx+KI=; b=Hx0gEPLt4Uu/GMKbg+jJVgNCStQtNaLWE2MfqESN0TyIypIGNnf4+b/leZ6yha/pyi hzBsDJx7hYdhs8+dLKNH1sNcaNAZFTo0SCRxaabMqiIIeHqB/O9wzoUZVHKlOHG4ga5j UsVGF/94mWcUvab8UKA+iu+x/WGS3qYKV2sgJXFmiNAcZNsb3jDkYmqYc82pvKE5NPp9 Xyf04d0ibzbaYIPwdcax8+Qa/8yBTs+QxBT15smW8zfhyVx0Mz1VVttdPjfgoj70EEmQ MMt75XMbvJmYj+NVotb2QE8Q30opCX5vcrIRYE5FL0r4tQqXHaPejWTUkZaEcqq9aTt0 uirg== X-Received: by 10.60.103.79 with SMTP id fu15mr19280035oeb.127.1366826052230; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux1 (cpe-76-187-91-128.tx.res.rr.com. [76.187.91.128]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wq8sm1420549obb.7.2013.04.24.10.54.08 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: William Hubbs Received: by linux1 (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:54:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:54:07 -0500 From: William Hubbs To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: oldnet scripts splitting out from OpenRC Message-ID: <20130424175407.GA2404@linux1> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20130424161606.GA1607@linux1> <51780F2D.7060007@gentoo.org> <20130424172323.GB2323@linux1> <201304241334.37807.vapier@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201304241334.37807.vapier@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Archives-Salt: 79376a5c-7285-459d-9c0e-9e4c5d0794c2 X-Archives-Hash: 980f48582011ef72a36879447824f9be --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:34:36PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote: > On Wednesday 24 April 2013 13:23:23 William Hubbs wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 12:58:21PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote: > > > On 24/04/13 12:16 PM, William Hubbs wrote: > > > > it has been suggested that gentoo's oldnet scripts be split out > > > > into their own package separate from OpenRC so that they can be > > > > developed independently. I am looking at doing this for OpenRC > > > > 0.12, which I hope to release soon. > > > >=20 > > > > This means when you emerge or upgrade to openrc-0.12, the net.* > > > > scripts will no longer be included. I am going to call the separate > > > > package that includes these scripts gentoo-oldnet. > > > >=20 > > > > My plan is to write a newsitem when OpenRC 0.12 is released > > > > telling users this and that they will have to emerge gentoo-oldnet > > > > to get the gentoo networking scripts or turn on the newnet (maybe > > > > I'll change this to net) use flag to get OpenRC's network scripts > > > > installed and put ewarns in the ebuild if this use flag is turned > > > > off. > > > >=20 > > > > I feel that a newsitem and ewarns in the OpenRC ebuild cover live > > > > systems well. In a nutshell, users should pay attention to their > > > > news items and ewarns. > > > >=20 > > > > On the other hand, some are suggesting that I should add a runtime > > > > dependency to OpenRC so that it pulls in gentoo-oldnet. Since > > > > OpenRC doesn't need gentoo-oldnet in order to run, I feel like this > > > > would be abusing dependencies. > > > >=20 > > > > Does anyone have any thoughts? > > >=20 > > > Current users should be able to do a -uDN and still have their > > > existing systems work as-is. Whether you do this via a static > > > dependency or one controlled by a use flag (and be sure use flag > > > defaults would have oldnet installed by default) is up to you. > >=20 > > The issue is that OpenRC does not have any kind of dependency on > > gentoo-oldnet at all. There will be a separate loopback script in Open= RC > > so it is possible to run OpenRC on a system without the oldnet or > > newnet scripts. In fact, this is a completely valid configuration. > >=20 > > OpenRC doesn't "link" to gentoo-oldnet in any way, so there is no > > dependency. > >=20 > > The way I read the dev manual [1], a newsitem and postinst messages are > > the way to go for somethinglike this. >=20 > it is reasonable to expect openrc updates to *not* break a system. that = means=20 > people shouldn't be required to read a news/postinst message to keep from= =20 > killing things. >=20 > even then, a default Gentoo system should have networking support availab= le by=20 > default. our manuals assume this, and people shouldn't have to install a= =20 > stage3 and then do `emerge gentoo-oldnet` just to have that happen. so= =20 > keeping a dependency in openrc (perhaps initially hard, or behind=20 > IUSE=3D+oldnet) makes sense. I was planning on opening a bug before all of this hit stable to have releng add gentoo-oldnet to the stages when it does hit stable. if we keep a dependency for a while, even behind something like IUSE=3D"+oldnet", when we drop it, people will still be hit if they do emerge --depclean before they emerge gentoo-oldnet. Also, (although I don't really care about this much because we tell people not to do it), folks who set USE=3D"-* foo bar bas" in their make.conf would get hit immediately with this solution. Am I missing something? It just seems like this is putting off the emerge command people will need to run for a while. William --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAlF4HD8ACgkQblQW9DDEZTjhKQCUCCECcezWA3Wgl1EqG/azouIl SQCdGfKhoxmVaOuPepr3HotiVc17QpM= =TGB3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY--