From: William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: oldnet scripts splitting out from OpenRC
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:54:07 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130424175407.GA2404@linux1> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201304241334.37807.vapier@gentoo.org>
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On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:34:36PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Wednesday 24 April 2013 13:23:23 William Hubbs wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 12:58:21PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> > > On 24/04/13 12:16 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> > > > it has been suggested that gentoo's oldnet scripts be split out
> > > > into their own package separate from OpenRC so that they can be
> > > > developed independently. I am looking at doing this for OpenRC
> > > > 0.12, which I hope to release soon.
> > > >
> > > > This means when you emerge or upgrade to openrc-0.12, the net.*
> > > > scripts will no longer be included. I am going to call the separate
> > > > package that includes these scripts gentoo-oldnet.
> > > >
> > > > My plan is to write a newsitem when OpenRC 0.12 is released
> > > > telling users this and that they will have to emerge gentoo-oldnet
> > > > to get the gentoo networking scripts or turn on the newnet (maybe
> > > > I'll change this to net) use flag to get OpenRC's network scripts
> > > > installed and put ewarns in the ebuild if this use flag is turned
> > > > off.
> > > >
> > > > I feel that a newsitem and ewarns in the OpenRC ebuild cover live
> > > > systems well. In a nutshell, users should pay attention to their
> > > > news items and ewarns.
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, some are suggesting that I should add a runtime
> > > > dependency to OpenRC so that it pulls in gentoo-oldnet. Since
> > > > OpenRC doesn't need gentoo-oldnet in order to run, I feel like this
> > > > would be abusing dependencies.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have any thoughts?
> > >
> > > Current users should be able to do a -uDN and still have their
> > > existing systems work as-is. Whether you do this via a static
> > > dependency or one controlled by a use flag (and be sure use flag
> > > defaults would have oldnet installed by default) is up to you.
> >
> > The issue is that OpenRC does not have any kind of dependency on
> > gentoo-oldnet at all. There will be a separate loopback script in OpenRC
> > so it is possible to run OpenRC on a system without the oldnet or
> > newnet scripts. In fact, this is a completely valid configuration.
> >
> > OpenRC doesn't "link" to gentoo-oldnet in any way, so there is no
> > dependency.
> >
> > The way I read the dev manual [1], a newsitem and postinst messages are
> > the way to go for somethinglike this.
>
> it is reasonable to expect openrc updates to *not* break a system. that means
> people shouldn't be required to read a news/postinst message to keep from
> killing things.
>
> even then, a default Gentoo system should have networking support available by
> default. our manuals assume this, and people shouldn't have to install a
> stage3 and then do `emerge gentoo-oldnet` just to have that happen. so
> keeping a dependency in openrc (perhaps initially hard, or behind
> IUSE=+oldnet) makes sense.
I was planning on opening a bug before all of this hit stable to have
releng add gentoo-oldnet to the stages when it does hit stable.
if we keep a dependency for a while, even behind something like
IUSE="+oldnet", when we drop it, people will still be hit if they do
emerge --depclean before they emerge gentoo-oldnet.
Also, (although I don't really care about this much because we tell people
not to do it), folks who set USE="-* foo bar bas" in their make.conf would
get hit immediately with this solution.
Am I missing something? It just seems like this is putting off the
emerge command people will need to run for a while.
William
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-04-24 17:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-04-24 16:16 [gentoo-dev] rfc: oldnet scripts splitting out from OpenRC William Hubbs
2013-04-24 16:45 ` Diego Elio Pettenò
2013-04-24 17:01 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-24 17:30 ` Mike Frysinger
2013-04-24 21:00 ` Diego Elio Pettenò
2013-04-24 16:58 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-04-24 17:23 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-24 17:34 ` Mike Frysinger
2013-04-24 17:54 ` William Hubbs [this message]
2013-04-24 18:16 ` Rich Freeman
2013-04-24 18:30 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-25 21:01 ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
2013-04-26 8:41 ` Tobias Klausmann
2013-04-26 8:58 ` Tobias Klausmann
2013-04-26 11:20 ` Michael Mol
2013-04-26 16:24 ` »Q«
2013-04-24 22:34 ` [gentoo-dev] " Walter Dnes
2013-04-24 23:17 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-24 23:32 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-04-25 0:05 ` Carlos Silva
2013-04-25 1:10 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-25 1:39 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-04-25 2:12 ` Zac Medico
2013-04-25 18:10 ` Mike Frysinger
2013-04-25 18:27 ` G.Wolfe Woodbury
2013-04-25 18:54 ` Rich Freeman
2013-04-25 19:08 ` Mike Frysinger
2013-04-24 18:46 ` Mike Frysinger
2013-04-24 22:18 ` Patrick McLean
2013-04-26 17:27 ` Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
2013-04-26 18:12 ` Robin H. Johnson
2013-04-26 18:14 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-04-26 18:53 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-25 3:13 ` Alec Warner
2013-04-25 3:32 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-24 19:00 ` Michał Górny
2013-04-24 19:17 ` William Hubbs
2013-04-25 19:09 ` vivo75
2013-04-25 23:07 ` Mike Frysinger
2013-04-26 8:44 ` Tobias Klausmann
2013-04-25 16:50 ` Vadim A. Misbakh-Soloviov
2013-04-25 16:58 ` Rich Freeman
2013-04-25 17:13 ` Carlos Silva
2013-04-25 17:17 ` Peter Stuge
2013-04-25 17:18 ` Carlos Silva
2013-04-25 17:23 ` Peter Stuge
2013-04-25 17:23 ` Tom Wijsman
2013-04-25 22:15 ` [gentoo-dev] " Duncan
2013-04-25 22:51 ` Carlos Silva
2013-04-25 23:12 ` Peter Stuge
2013-04-25 23:15 ` Ambroz Bizjak
2013-04-26 8:37 ` Duncan
2013-04-25 23:49 ` [gentoo-dev] OldNet out of OpenRC: as the requester Robin H. Johnson
2013-04-26 10:13 ` Alexander Berntsen
2013-04-26 14:14 ` [gentoo-dev] rfc: oldnet scripts splitting out from OpenRC Luca Barbato
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