Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: linux-firmware

[Greg KH <gregkh@gentoo.org>]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 07:33:48PM +0100, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2013, Greg KH wrote:
> 
> >> Ulrich Mueller (ulm) wrote this on the 16th:
> >> 
> >> > Look into the WHENCE file and be horrified. Taking just the first ten
> >> > items (of a total 114):
> >> > 
> >> >    Unknown license (3 times)
> 
> > Which ones specifically?
> 
> Driver: snd-korg1212 -- Korg 1212 IO audio device
> Driver: kaweth -- USB KLSI KL5USB101-based Ethernet device
> Driver: dvb-ttusb-budget -- Technotrend/Hauppauge Nova-USB devices

As these originally came from the kernel source tree, they are "by
default" ok.

> >> >    GPL, but without source (3 times)
> 
> > Really?  Which?
> 
> Driver: ambassador -- Madge Ambassador (Collage PCI 155 Server) ATM NIC.
> Driver: snd-maestro3 -- ESS Allegro Maestro3 audio device
> Driver: qla1280 - Qlogic QLA 1240/1x80/1x160 SCSI support

Some of these came from the kernel source tree originally, others don't,
but they all imply that the GPL really isn't for the firmware itself.
Odd.

> >> >    "All rights reserved"
> 
> > That's not an issue, unless it is alone, is there something else in the
> > license as well?
> 
> Driver: snd-ymfpci -- Yamaha YMF724/740/744/754 audio devices
> 
> According to WHENCE, it is:
> "Copyright (c) 1997-1999 Yamaha Corporation. All Rights Reserved."
> Nothing else.

That's a copyright notice, not a license, so I don't know what to
suggest :)

> >> >    BSD, without source
> 
> > There's no problem with that.
> 
> Driver: advansys - AdvanSys SCSI
> 
> Right, and it's the only one out of the first ten that we're allowed
> to redistribute.
> 
> >> >    Right for redistribution not granted
> 
> > Huh?  Which?
> 
> Driver: smctr -- SMC ISA/MCA Token Ring adapter

Token ring drivers were dropped from the kernel already, so this isn't
an issue.

> >> >    "Permission is hereby granted for the distribution [...] as part of
> >> >        a Linux or other Open Source operating system kernel"
> 
> > What is wrong with that?  We happen to be distributing a Linux operating
> > system.
> 
> Driver: keyspan -- USB Keyspan USA-xxx serial device
> 
> We distribute it in a separate package. And it doesn't say "part of
> an OS" but explicitly "part of a kernel".

Ah, that's because at the time, that's the way it was originally
distributed.  Given that the company isn't around anymore, I don't think
this is going to be an issue :)

> 
> >> > With one exception, we are not even allowed to redistribute these.
> 
> > I don't understand, please explain all of these in detail so that we can
> > fix this upstream.
> 
> >> This is what we've been discussing about. This is not really about
> >> Gentoo by itself, but the ability to distribute the sources at all, be
> >> it from us or somebody else.
> 
> > I understand, and as an upstream developer, I want to see that fixed
> > because all distros need to be able to distribute these files for the
> > kernel to work properly.
> 
> > Oh, and other distros, with lots of lawyers, are distributing these
> > firmware images as a single package, so this needs to be resolved either
> > by realizing that our interpretation is incorrect, or that everyone is
> > wrong here.
> 
> Can you show me a distro that distributes above-mentioned files?
> Debian, for example, doesn't distribute them (AFAICS).

As far as I can tell, both SuSE and Red Hat distribute these today.  And
so does Canonical, but really, that can't be taken as "valid legal
usage" at all :)

Has anyone asked the upstream linux-firmware developers about these
files?

thanks for the detailed descriptions, much appreciated.

I think this is something that the Board needs to decide, after
discussing it with our lawyers, it's not something that non-legal people
(like myself) should be saying is the definitive answer.

greg k-h