[gentoo-dev] Wordiness

[gentoo-dev] Wordiness

[Matt Turner]

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>

Do you realize that you just wrote a two-and-a-half page single-spaced
thousand-word email? Seriously, this is way too much. This mailing
list is way too much.

[gentoo-dev] Re: Wordiness

[Duncan]

Matt Turner posted on Thu, 20 Dec 2012 22:29:09 -0800 as excerpted:

> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
> Do you realize that you just wrote a two-and-a-half page single-spaced
> thousand-word email? Seriously, this is way too much. This mailing list
> is way too much.

173 lines (of about 72 chars) according to my client (reporting the value 
given in the gmane overviews, I believe).  150+, including quoted 
material of perhaps 20-50 lines, aren't unusual here.  400+ are not 
unheard of.

I was posting a bit of gentoo history behind a policy in question. 
History tends to /be/ a bit wordy at a reasonable level of detail, as 
necessary there to explain the reasoning[1] behind the policy being 
questioned.

---
[1] Again, as I understand it, subject to correction by others there and 
closer to the process.  No claims of infallibility here!

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Wordiness

[Matt Turner]

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:05 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>

My point is that you consistently write long essays that I, and
apparently most others, don't bother to read. I'm not sure if you're
aware of this.

Someone said on IRC this morning in response to this thread

> the tragic thing is that guy would be able to make valuable contributions if it weren't for the excessive length of his mails

So, your emails are way too long. A huge percentage of recipients
don't bother to read them. I don't know whether you just enjoy writing
(you must!) or if you hope to actually be heard, but as it stands now
you're not being heard by most.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Wordiness

[Michael Mol]

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:05 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>
> My point is that you consistently write long essays that I, and
> apparently most others, don't bother to read. I'm not sure if you're
> aware of this.
>
> Someone said on IRC this morning in response to this thread
>
>> the tragic thing is that guy would be able to make valuable contributions if it weren't for the excessive length of his mails
>
> So, your emails are way too long. A huge percentage of recipients
> don't bother to read them. I don't know whether you just enjoy writing
> (you must!) or if you hope to actually be heard, but as it stands now
> you're not being heard by most.
>

I dunno. I read them.

Duncan, I think the clue here, though, is that you should start a
blog. I'd read that, too. :)


--
:wq

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Wordiness

[Dale]

Michael Mol wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:05 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>> My point is that you consistently write long essays that I, and
>> apparently most others, don't bother to read. I'm not sure if you're
>> aware of this.
>>
>> Someone said on IRC this morning in response to this thread
>>
>>> the tragic thing is that guy would be able to make valuable contributions if it weren't for the excessive length of his mails
>> So, your emails are way too long. A huge percentage of recipients
>> don't bother to read them. I don't know whether you just enjoy writing
>> (you must!) or if you hope to actually be heard, but as it stands now
>> you're not being heard by most.
>>
> I dunno. I read them.
>
> Duncan, I think the clue here, though, is that you should start a
> blog. I'd read that, too. :)
>
>
> --
> :wq
>
>


Me too.  He does give a history of why things are the way they are when
he writes.  Sometimes that history gives context and good reasoning.  I
might also add, some people write short emails then have responses that
request more info.  I think Duncan just heads those off and makes his
point the first time around. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

[gentoo-dev] Re: Wordiness

[Duncan]

Michael Mol posted on Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:51:09 -0500 as excerpted:

> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 11:05 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>> My point is that you consistently write long essays that I, and
>> apparently most others, don't bother to read.

>>> the tragic thing is that guy would be able to make valuable
>>> contributions if it weren't for the excessive length of his mails
>>
>> So, your emails are way too long.
>>
> I dunno. I read them.
> 
> Duncan, I think the clue here, though, is that you should start a blog.
> I'd read that, too. :)

Thanks, all.  .

It's not everyone.  I have a stack of replies thanking me for explaining 
<whatever> that no one took the time to do in a way they could understand 
before.  But I think computer folks often take intuitive leaps faster 
than many and thus don't need it all spelled out repeatedly, as others 
often seem to, and I don't "consider the audience".  Yes, things often 
can tighten up with a bit of effort.

Ironic after all those "two page minimum" assignments on material easily 
covered in one paragraph of two sentences totaling five lines... I 
learned that lesson /too/ well.

But if I shorten it, invariably someone catches me out with an exception 
I considered but cut for brevity, so the discussion ends up longer and 
takes more round trips than it would if I hadn't, and I go back to the 
long form the next time. =:^(

I probably /should/ start a blog.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Wordiness

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On 05:31 Fri 21 Dec     , Matt Turner wrote:
> My point is that you consistently write long essays that I, and 
> apparently most others, don't bother to read. I'm not sure if you're 
> aware of this.
> 
> Someone said on IRC this morning in response to this thread
> 
> > the tragic thing is that guy would be able to make valuable 
> > contributions if it weren't for the excessive length of his mails
> 
> So, your emails are way too long. A huge percentage of recipients 
> don't bother to read them. I don't know whether you just enjoy writing 
> (you must!) or if you hope to actually be heard, but as it stands now 
> you're not being heard by most.

Just coming back from Christmas vacation, but ...

Yeah.

Duncan, you need to learn how to be pithy. Invest the effort to cut your 
writing down to its essence; consider the time of the 100s/1000s who 
read it. Your value and impact will increase exponentially.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Council Member / Sr. Developer, Gentoo Linux <http://dberkholz.com>
Analyst, RedMonk <http://redmonk.com/dberkholz/>

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Wordiness

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:33:02 -0600
Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 05:31 Fri 21 Dec     , Matt Turner wrote:
> > My point is that you consistently write long essays that I, and 
> > apparently most others, don't bother to read. I'm not sure if
> > you're aware of this.
> > 
> > Someone said on IRC this morning in response to this thread
> > 
> > > the tragic thing is that guy would be able to make valuable 
> > > contributions if it weren't for the excessive length of his mails
> > 
> > So, your emails are way too long. A huge percentage of recipients 
> > don't bother to read them. I don't know whether you just enjoy
> > writing (you must!) or if you hope to actually be heard, but as it
> > stands now you're not being heard by most.
> 
> Just coming back from Christmas vacation, but ...

Now if we could also get everyone to post the relevant bits of the message they
are replying to, instead of the entire thing. [1]


Regards,
     jer


[1] I quoted the whole thing since in this context, it actually mattered. [2]
[2] And nobody argue now that it's useful in case you missed/deleted the
    original message - that's what archives are for.