From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88CDB1381FB for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 00:33:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C048E06E8; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 00:33:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BCE821C0F8 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 00:32:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from marga.jer-c2.orkz.net (D4B2706A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl [212.178.112.106]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jer) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B19E33C770 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2012 00:32:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 01:32:46 +0100 From: Jeroen Roovers To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Attracting developers (Re: Packages up for grabs...) Message-ID: <20121227013246.1c766dc6@marga.jer-c2.orkz.net> In-Reply-To: <50DB2824.6040000@gmail.com> References: <50CDFD7F.7040207@orlitzky.com> <50CE62DE.3060608@orlitzky.com> <20121217104006.4f149977@pomiocik.lan> <20121219075656.3d07efab@marga.jer-c2.orkz.net> <20121219100343.61de5cd1@pomiocik.lan> <50DB2824.6040000@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.12; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: a5880891-b394-4202-8ccc-d66211c4329c X-Archives-Hash: 97c150b5b41223dbd235914c77da071a On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 05:39:00 +1300 Kent Fredric wrote: > On 19/12/2012 10:03 p.m., Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > If I were to throw random ideas, I'd think about letting new > > recruits did all commits through a proxy (mentor?). Of course, it > > all would be easier if we used git. For once someone suggests a single good case where git beats CVS for portage tree changes: easily checking suggested changes ... > I know this side question of "git" migration is one we want to avoid=20 > discussing, I know its in progress. >=20 > But I am literally waiting for it to happen, because for whatever=20 > reason, the present barriers to contribution are too high for me > without it. ... and yet someone will always turn up, ignore the context, and write another rant about git. > I can't put an exact finger on it, but devs seem to think the quiz=20 > methodology is "easy", but it ( oh, and CVS ) are a high barrier to=20 > entry for me. For tree commits, we don't use complex CVS features at all. It isn't and shouldn't be used as a development repository, so you need to know about `cvs {add,commit,remove}', mainly. Most of the `cvs commit' instances are normally handled by repoman. > I don't have the time/motivation/focus required to commit to even=20 > completing the quizzes, and I don't have the time/motivation/focus=20 > really required to be a "full dev", and I don't even want to be a > "Full dev" really. >=20 > But I basically have found every time I've done the quiz, its > eventually boiled down to a cycle of >=20 > 1. Read quiz > 2. Find it hard to find documentation on > 3. Search for > 4. Get lost > 5. Find the resulting information I eventually find is vague and=20 > confusing with regard to the question. > 6. Eventually get distracted and do something other than the rest of > the quiz. [More of the same...] What you want to do is contact your mentor - that is the person who should be able to point out where to find the actual answer or just tell you what the answer is - the point of the quizes is to properly teach you how things work, not how to find out how things work. > Can we short cut the whole quiz process and have some "Inbound"=20 > repository until we're full git, which people can fork/commit/pull > and trusted people can review submitted branches and apply them to > CVS? You can mail or pastebin someone a diff right now or attach it to a bug report. If every recruit/mentor team worked that way right now, we would already catch a lot more problems much earlier. > Because I feel its quite possible partly that CVS is due to blame > ( due to requiring of trusted commit, which requires the questions ) > that there is difficulty getting devs, and the longer we're stuck > with it, the more it will be a problem. A shiny new workflow doesn't magically make Gentoo development easier. The hard bits aren't usually related to interactive repo access methods. We can't get rid of the quizes just because we all now use $shiny. >=20 > It could actually be just the Proxy Maintainer workflow is not clear=20 > enough, or simple enough, and that we need more push towards a more=20 > heavy proxy-maintainer based system ( I don't know, I'm ignorant to > too much of proxy-maintainer-ship stuff, to discern /why/ that is > might be difficult, but I'd imagine my ignorance is part of the > problem ) Proxy commits should work exactly like recruit/mentor commits: you review patches and give the nod and then the commits get done. This workflow is only slightly less convenient with CVS than with git. jer --- I could be a brilliant programmer if someone wrote the perfect IDE for me.