From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB02A1381F3 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:43:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B7A2121C15A; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:43:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BE7521C173 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:42:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pomiocik.lan (213-238-105-155.adsl.inetia.pl [213.238.105.155]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F97F33DA31; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:42:25 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 12:42:23 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?TWljaGHFgiBHw7Nybnk=?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: joost@antarean.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: eudev project announcement Message-ID: <20121221124223.3f82390f@pomiocik.lan> In-Reply-To: <2939089.IbOZCMC3y7@eve> References: <20121215203359.4552d807@pomiocik.lan> <2519759.yK9dD2bOet@eve> <20121221120234.7bf14e23@pomiocik.lan> <2939089.IbOZCMC3y7@eve> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.14; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA256; boundary="Sig_/viISkrCP=apV41GQOo5cBrm"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 6350135d-fdf9-47e1-8911-9b0480c22d3b X-Archives-Hash: 761084d04f5a12d0b05c97193b4a8027 --Sig_/viISkrCP=apV41GQOo5cBrm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 12:31:28 +0100 "J. Roeleveld" wrote: > On Friday, December 21, 2012 12:02:34 PM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:24:45 +0100 > >=20 > > "J. Roeleveld" wrote: > > > On Friday, December 21, 2012 09:57:25 AM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > > > Just let me know when you have to maintain a lot of such systemd > > > > and upgrade, say, glibc. Then maybe you'll understand. > > >=20 > > > A shared /usr means I need to update ALL the systems at once. > > > When /usr is not shared, I can update groups at a time. > >=20 > > Yes, and this is what disqualifies it for the general case. If you > > can't update one at some point, you can't update the others or it is > > going to likely get broken in a random manner. >=20 > Yes, but do you want to find out when the entire production environment i= s=20 > down? Or would you rather do the upgrades in steps and only risk having t= o=20 > rebuild a few nodes and have a lower performance during that time? > There is a big difference between 50% performance and 0%. Didn't you just state that you *have* to update all at the same time? > > > To save time, a shared filesystem containing binary packages can easi= ly be > > > used and this is what I use myself. > > > I have one VM that is used to rebuild the packages when I want to do = an > > > update and the real host then simply uses the binary packages. > > > The configuration items needed for emerge are synchronized between the > > > build system and the actual server. > >=20 > > Wait, wait. So you have introduced even more hackery to get it working? > > Good to hear. That's really a good reason to support your arguments. > > 'I got it working with a lot of hackery, so it is a good solution!' >=20 > Please explain, what is hackery about having a single host doing all the= =20 > compiling for multiple servers? > The only thing I need to synchronize between the "real" host and the "com= pile"=20 > host is "/etc/portage" and "/var/lib/portage/world" The hackery is about installing packages partially to local and partially to shared location. I feel like I'm not following anymore what actually happens there, not that it is worth my time. > > > The main reason why I would never share an OS filesystem between mult= iple > > > systems is to avoid the situation where a failed upgrade takes down t= he > > > entire environment. > >=20 > > And this doesn't happen in your case because...? Because as far as I > > can see: > >=20 > > 1) failed upgrade in /usr takes down the entire environment, > >=20 > > 2) failed upgrade in / may take down the machine, > >=20 > > 3) failed hackery you're doing to get it all working may have even more > > unpredictable results. > >=20 > > And yes, I prefer to take down the entire environment and fix it in one > > step. That sounds much better than trying to get it back up and re-sync > > all the machines which got into some mid-broken state. >=20 > With shared OS filesystems, that is what you will get. > With non-shared OS filesystems, the other nodes will keep working. Aren't we talking about shared OS filesystems *right now*? --=20 Best regards, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny --Sig_/viISkrCP=apV41GQOo5cBrm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iJwEAQEIAAYFAlDUSx8ACgkQfXuS5UK5QB0G7AP+K0dtLY4+288E0Ly5eMkoyTUv 9ZAsOa/cd85wIS7KRvJbQu2l9Gbm0QXYLudZPSNyT6e14ys6T7T7yhthE5H7hEcc eUmq9qCJOgILWf0YgDULSHfjB/dDnHxjg6weLLSa9lZadcdlm9KXTRE5TnAhI2Jm 2I6fZwA82bnBdq65e7Y= =uB+R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/viISkrCP=apV41GQOo5cBrm--