From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E8D51381F3 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:58:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02F2321C0F5; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:58:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 548A121C13D for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:57:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pomiocik.lan (213-238-105-155.adsl.inetia.pl [213.238.105.155]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 865DF33DB73; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 08:57:30 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:57:25 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?TWljaGHFgiBHw7Nybnk=?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: joost@antarean.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: eudev project announcement Message-ID: <20121221095725.1294afcd@pomiocik.lan> In-Reply-To: <1410550.8z1d0Jc2Uc@eve> References: <20121215203359.4552d807@pomiocik.lan> <71370075.XjM0oziCTt@eve> <20121220093136.1dbd23f8@pomiocik.lan> <1410550.8z1d0Jc2Uc@eve> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.14; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA256; boundary="Sig_//WF6XzkR/nkaN/KW7ppeIk/"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 4547409a-7376-4f9a-b3f0-ddd505ac7fd5 X-Archives-Hash: ed9a92980d0d76413be2cd34da82a8ec --Sig_//WF6XzkR/nkaN/KW7ppeIk/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:10:22 +0100 "J. Roeleveld" wrote: > On Thursday, December 20, 2012 09:31:36 AM Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 00:27:26 +0100 > >=20 > > "J. Roeleveld" wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 09:13:28 AM Greg KH wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 08:21:36AM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > > > > On Mon, December 17, 2012 22:31, Greg KH wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:03:40PM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > > > > >> Olav Vitters wrote: > > > > > >> >On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:29:26AM -0500, Richard Yao wrote: > > > > > >> >> As I said in an earlier email, Lennart Poettering claims th= at it > > > > > >> >> does > > > > > >> >> not work. We are discussing some of the things necessary to= make > > > > > >> >> it > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >work. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >Just to repeat: > > > > > >> >In this thread it was claimed that a separate /usr is not > > > > > >> >supported by > > > > > >> >systemd/udev. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >A case which works with latest systemd on various distributio= ns. I > > > > > >> >checked with upstream (not Lennart), and they confirmed it wo= rks. > > > > > >> >I > > > > > >> >can > > > > > >> >wait for Lennart to say the same, but really not needed. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >I assume this will again turn into a "but I meant something e= lse". > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > >> Olav. > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > >> Lennart has stated that he considers a seperate /usr without i= nit* > > > > > >> broken. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Yes, as do I, and so do a lot of other developers. > > > > >=20 > > > > > It is only "broken", because upstream decided to move everything = into > > > > > /usr > > > > > that was previously in /. > > > >=20 > > > > No, not at all, please see the web page that describes, in detail, = the > > > > problems that has been going on for quite some time now, with the /= usr > > > > and / partitions and packages. > > > >=20 > > > > http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken > > > >=20 > > > > One good solution to this issue is to move everything into /usr, and > > > > that's something that has wonderful benifits in the long run, and is > > > > something that I expect all Linux distros to eventually implement. > > > > Those that don't, will suffer because of it. > > > >=20 > > > > Again, see the web page for why moving stuff into /usr is a good id= ea > > > > for the reasons behind this. > > > >=20 > > > > =09 > http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge > > >=20 > > > Example: /usr Network Share > > > When /usr is on a network share, why not add a / on network as well? > > > I have multiple systems and as they all have different uses, they all= have > > > different software installed. > > >=20 > > > Example: Multiple Guest Operating Systems on the Same Host > > > See answer to previous example. > > >=20 > > > How many environments actually currently exist where a shared /usr is > > > being > > > used? > >=20 > > Are you aware that these environments are actually one of the most > > important reasons for moving everything to /usr? I don't know what > > hackery you're using to keep the systems in sync and working but it is > > braindead enough. >=20 > An init* needs to be kept in sync with the rest of the system as well. As= that=20 > is a compressed filesystem, it takes a lot more effort to keep that in sy= nc in=20 > comparison to a "normal" filesystem. > I consider having to write scripts to unpack, modify and repack an init* = to be=20 > more hackery then to keep a bootable root-filesystem working that can mou= nt=20 > all the filesystems needed for the whole environment. > Anything needed to mount /usr, /var, /run (and any other part needed for = the=20 > boot-process) should not be allowed to depend on anything in any of those= =20 > directories prior to those being mountable. >=20 > > The difference between keeping part of the system in rootfs > > and initramfs is that you can discard initramfs after using it. It can > > be anything which is enough to get the /usr mounted and system > > starting. Files on rootfs *have* to be in sync with those on /usr > > or you're getting random failures. >=20 > The same is true for an init*. > If an update of part of the OS leads to subtle changes in the filesystem = where=20 > older versions can no longer properly access them, the init* is broken. Just let me know when you have to maintain a lot of such systemd and upgrade, say, glibc. Then maybe you'll understand. --=20 Best regards, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny --Sig_//WF6XzkR/nkaN/KW7ppeIk/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iJwEAQEIAAYFAlDUJHkACgkQfXuS5UK5QB0/OwP/ehUd2Lmdxeb6HsTTxq7RJchT ebO/y6m2ykcVKM5Rz3ozyXnzkxUZlLcghDcX6phSvU7gEhqdmCRVObJKbBEEyxHl 5IiORHsQT+0Dm6HReBrN7AKzjkmbJx65jLB2TxLbjWDt0sNZueXXhB3K5/0khrV5 pLUej1hx9rBCuyzU8jk= =KTO9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_//WF6XzkR/nkaN/KW7ppeIk/--