From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954DA1381F3 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:23:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3834C21C1B2; Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:22:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08D0921C273 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:11:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from marga.jer-c2.orkz.net (D4B2706A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl [212.178.112.106]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jer) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C264C33DAB4 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:11:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:11:44 +0100 From: Jeroen Roovers To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Attracting developers (Re: Packages up for grabs...) Message-ID: <20121217211144.278633f5@marga.jer-c2.orkz.net> In-Reply-To: References: <50CDFD7F.7040207@orlitzky.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.12; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 2a459062-f726-4960-95f9-90cd5b33c7bf X-Archives-Hash: 49601bbc05504166b4b0bd20693c1ea8 On Sun, 16 Dec 2012 14:14:49 -0500 Michael Mol wrote: > I face funroll-loops references and worse almost every time I bring up > Gentoo among a different group of Linux-familiar technical people. > There are still *very* strong prejudices against Gentoo in most places Comparing Gentoo to "binary" Linux distros is simply using the wrong analogy. I use Gentoo/Linux the way other people use some BSD with ports - this is where Gentoo stands out, and compiler flags have little to do with it. Build time configuration does. You pick a development base, build and install packages you want on top of that, and you end up running a stable system for years that is relatively easy to patch up as and when needed. The difference between many other ports-like distros and Gentoo is that it is usually very well possible to do rolling upgrades and we make that difference by ensuring a neverending progression from unstable to stable, instead of calling a freeze every so often and picking up new developments for future "stable" releases. > I've brought it up. But when I bring it up, and I argue against those > funroll-loops references, one or two people come out of lurking and > admit that they use it...and it's a surprise to people around them. There you go! Just explain that compiler optimisation is not the reason you use it. Then you should have their attention and you can start to explain the actual reasons you use it. It may make them feel rather stupid about the "plonk in the CD and roll with it" attitude that they must have picked up from some antiquated locked-down distro[1]. :) > I've started describing it as a "coming out of the closet" experience > for a reason... There's a _serious_ reputation issue that Gentoo still > hasn't completely sloughed off...which is incredibly sad. The same reputation issue that FreeBSD and OpenBSD have, no doubt. > :wq There is an app for that: alias :wq='echo "OK, I quit!"' jer [1] Heck, nowadays even Windows and Mac OS X support several ports-like source-based software distros, despite sandboxed, walled-gardened "app stores" for people who find it easier to pay for stuff than to wonder how to get the software they need for free. And that's entirely fair: it's a design/implementation decision everyone has to make according to their own needs, expectations, limitations and experience.