[gentoo-dev] New global useflag proposals

[gentoo-dev] New global useflag proposals

[Tomáš Chvátal]

Hi guys,

wayland: Enable dev-libs/wayland backend

vdpau: Enable the Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix
acceleration interface.

Cheers

Tom

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global useflag proposals

[Samuli Suominen]

On 23/11/12 16:03, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> wayland: Enable dev-libs/wayland backend
>
> vdpau: Enable the Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix
> acceleration interface.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tom
>

+1. Please do.

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global useflag proposals

[Alexis Ballier]

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:06:56 +0200
Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 23/11/12 16:03, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > wayland: Enable dev-libs/wayland backend
> >
> > vdpau: Enable the Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix
> > acceleration interface.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Tom
> >
> 
> +1. Please do.
> 
> 
> 

+1 too

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global useflag proposals

[Gilles Dartiguelongue]

Le vendredi 23 novembre 2012 à 15:03 +0100, Tomáš Chvátal a écrit :
> Hi guys,
> 
> wayland: Enable dev-libs/wayland backend
> 
> vdpau: Enable the Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix
> acceleration interface.

While at it, I'd like to finally have USE=introspection a global USE
flag. The gnome team had to stay with local flags because we are not
willing to change ebuilds (114 by use.local.desc count) using it and
we've always had an argument that maybe someday, somebody else will do
introspection and that would confuse people.

Well it's been a few years now (at least 2 by gnome release count), and
nothing comparable has emerged in gentoo (at least). So, can we go
forward with this now ?

-- 
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global useflag proposals

[Alexis Ballier]

On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 21:16:12 +0100
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2012 à 15:03 +0100, Tomáš Chvátal a écrit :
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > wayland: Enable dev-libs/wayland backend
> > 
> > vdpau: Enable the Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix
> > acceleration interface.
> 
> While at it, I'd like to finally have USE=introspection a global USE
> flag. The gnome team had to stay with local flags because we are not
> willing to change ebuilds (114 by use.local.desc count) using it and
> we've always had an argument that maybe someday, somebody else will do
> introspection and that would confuse people.
> 
> Well it's been a few years now (at least 2 by gnome release count),
> and nothing comparable has emerged in gentoo (at least). So, can we go
> forward with this now ?

IOW: there used to be objections but we never listened to them and
didn't use the opportunity of a new major version to rename the useflag
so we now would like to have the useflag global :=)


I remember I was more or less against it being global back then, but
now I must admit its meaning is quite clear and that I don't consider
it local anymore (I enable/disable it in make.conf not package.use), so
I'd say go for it.

[gentoo-dev] Re: New global useflag proposals

[Duncan]

Alexis Ballier posted on Fri, 23 Nov 2012 18:11:30 -0300 as excerpted:

> I remember I was more or less against [USE=introspection] being global
> back then, but now I must admit its meaning is quite clear and that I
> don't consider it local anymore (I enable/disable it in make.conf not
> package.use), so I'd say go for it.

FWIW as a (long-time reasonably technical, even for gentoo) gentoo user, 
with very few exceptions, ALL my flags are in make.conf (actually, in a 
file /etc/portage/make/use, sourced from make.conf, as are several other 
files in that dir, make.conf itself is simply a bunch of source lines, 
but whatever), and thus "global" in terms of my own usage.

I /consistently/ run with --ask/--pretend and verify flags on new 
packages, as well as checking any flag changes on existing packages, and 
making a system-wide-default decision once seems the easiest and most 
reasonable way to handle it, here.

Then when I decide to change it for a package, I run equery hasuse and 
see what else uses that flag, then grep for it in both package.use/* and 
make/use, then change it globally if possible and run a --newuse --
pretend to see what changed, and decide then whether I want to keep the 
global change or if I want some packages each way, decide what I want the 
default to be, and put the others in package.use/*.

There are only two exception packages, udev and ncmpc.  Otherwise, even 
my package.use files are per-USE-flag.  One ls is worth a thousand-word 
description:

$ ls /etc/portage/package.use/
0neg-amr            0neg-network   doc      secure-delete               
0neg-bindist        0neg-openssl   gtk      sql                         
0neg-custom-cflags  0neg-qt4       minimal  suid
0neg-deprecated     0neg-threads   perl     text
0neg-faac           0neg-webkit    pic      unlock-notify
0neg-gnutls         0neg-xml       pipe     webkit
0neg-gpg            0neg-zeroconf  python   zzpkg-ncmpc
0neg-kde            0neg-zlib      sdl      zzpkg-udev


I'd guess that the global/local USE flag distinction is in practice lost 
on most users, and that of those that /do/ know the technical difference, 
likely most use make.conf for most local USE flags anyway, at least
setting a system default, from which individual packages may deviate via 
package.use.  That's certainly the case here.

Given that, I'd argue that the global/local USE flag distinction is 
almost entirely maintainer convenience (tho I'm not sure it actually /is/ 
a convenience, at least for those who bother to fill in the per-package 
metadata description of what it's actually doing for that package) in any 
case, and I'd just as soon get rid of it, keeping a global description of 
ALL USE flags, regardless, and mandating appropriate metadata.xml local 
descriptions regardless as well.

That way, global flags such as python would actually have reasonable per-
package descriptions.  Does it simply enable python script bindings?  
Does it enable installation of a bunch of python scripts?  Does it enable 
a python-script extension for the package?  What?  The global python flag 
doesn't say, and far too few packages with the global python USE flag 
have a local description saying what it actually DOES.  Unfortunately, 
that's the case with (raw guess) half the USE flag usage out there -- the 
gentooer has to actually read the ebuild to see what the flag does /for/
/that/ /package/, even tho the description SHOULD be in metadata.xml, 
thus exposed via equery uses, even for global flags.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: New global useflag proposals

[Peter Stuge]

Duncan wrote:
> I'd guess that the global/local USE flag distinction is in practice lost 
> on most users, and that of those that /do/ know the technical difference, 
> likely most use make.conf for most local USE flags anyway, at least
> setting a system default, from which individual packages may deviate via 
> package.use.  That's certainly the case here.

I'd guess that you're wrong. That's certainly the case here.

In practice, we're both using a data set of exactly 1 sample, so our
guesses are equally useless.


//Peter