From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B0831381F4 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:06:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EAE47E06FC; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:05:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hera.cwi.nl (hera.cwi.nl [192.16.191.8]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD14E09AF for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:04:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gentoo.org (sofia.ins.cwi.nl [192.16.196.188]) by hera.cwi.nl with ESMTP id q7FE4DLo013576 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:04:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:04:13 +0200 From: Fabian Groffen To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] remove system set? Message-ID: <20120815140413.GA10705@gentoo.org> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20120815125832.39c72a82@pomiocik.lan> <20120815110757.GV10705@gentoo.org> <20120815114153.GX10705@gentoo.org> <20120815120131.GY10705@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (Darwin 9.8.0, VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3) Organization: Gentoo Foundation, Inc. X-Archives-Salt: bd0bb4e3-442f-4bc1-b17b-e83e709ede79 X-Archives-Hash: 4faf9c41abf944c0b1172b742b2b4cd3 --i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15-08-2012 09:43:37 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > In that case then just ignore that whole section of my post. :) > Personally I consider the existence of @system a bit of a hack - like > the big kernel lock. It works OK, but here and there we run into > issues with it. >=20 > Williamh pointed out that the plan for now is to virtualize > openrc/systemd, which certainly is a solution to that problem. Being > an evolutionary vs revolutionary solution it is probably the better > next step. In fact, if you kept making many steps like that one > before long @system would become mostly a big collection of virtuals > anyway, and at that point its only reason for being would be as an > arbitrary list of packages that ebuild maintainers shouldn't add as > dependencies, at which point you could start stripping it away. >=20 > That isn't unlike what was done to get rid of the big kernel lock - > just remove it one instance at a time... I see it more as the set of packages I need to have on my system/Prefix, to have Portage and its ebuilds working happily and me being able to do basic stuff. One can debate whether ssh belongs to that set. For a non-Prefix (regular Gentoo?) system it's sort of essential, for a Prefix system, it's quite handy to have an ssh that actually works. Nevertheless, the system set, is a vital part of bootstrapping e.g. a Prefix setup. The whole route leading up to the situation of having the full set installed consists of numerous --nodeps emerges carefully put in an order where one can get away with the errors one receives due to missing stuff. =46rom that angle, if you wouldd remove the system set, would you add its contents to the Portage ebuild? Portage itself doesn't need a compiler or might not need gawk, but whatever it runs (ebuilds) often need so. Adding libc, a compiler, linker, shell, etc. to almost any every ebuild looks pretty much useless to me. Adding deps for all regular tools an ebuild uses (bash, sed, awk, cut, wc, ...) seems like error-prone and pretty much useless to me as well. So, there is the system set which just is the central place where those packages are recorded. --=20 Fabian Groffen Gentoo on a different level --i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAlArrF0ACgkQX3X2B8XHTokVLgCeIG5UEpg1Nt9q+rrZTnQFijVy GBMAniHBIp2bNEch+iKR9488GqqlKpp1 =FKZ8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ--