From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180A813800E for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:50:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 15A58E0713; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:49:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D47E05DB for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:49:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pomiocik.lan (87-205-49-30.adsl.inetia.pl [87.205.49.30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mgorny) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7ED1F1B4015; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:48:59 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:49:27 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?TWljaGHFgiBHw7Nybnk=?= To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Cc: yngwin@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] UTF-8 locale by default Message-ID: <20120727104927.440b7001@pomiocik.lan> In-Reply-To: References: <3146937.NEprMvEFLe@mephista> <20498.15988.225230.614853@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <2734677.97hjmIHWxX@smorgbox> Organization: Gentoo X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.1 (GTK+ 2.24.11; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA256; boundary="Sig_/A.i4Sa+R13vmKE7Ra9.r2fL"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: b7495460-c73f-4f70-a3d9-3ce44ebb3edd X-Archives-Hash: 717a0b76800b9ead50050fa6819c1f53 --Sig_/A.i4Sa+R13vmKE7Ra9.r2fL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:34:01 +0800 Ben de Groot wrote: > On 27 July 2012 16:06, Dan Douglas wrote: > > On Friday, July 27, 2012 09:08:36 AM Ulrich Mueller wrote: > >> >>>>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012, Ben de Groot wrote: > >> > >> > I understand why the council rejected Debian's C.UTF-8 option, > >> > but is there really no better default that we can use? > >> > >> > Without any default locale set, in practically all cases that > >> > means that the user is presented with English, and mostly the > >> > American variant. So, in practice, we are defaulting to en_US, > >> > just not in a unicode environment. Correct me if I'm wrong. > >> > >> See below. We're not defaulting to en_US for things like the number > >> format. > >> > >> > Also, in most other places (such as our website, GLEPs, ebuilds) > >> > we default to en_US.UTF-8. > >> > >> > So let's upgrade to en_US.UTF-8, which is for most users more > >> > desirable than the current situation. Of course we will still > >> > advise them to set their desired locales in /etc/locale.gen. But > >> > at least they will start with a unicode environment, as expected > >> > anno 2012. > >> > >> As I had pointed out before [1], changing from POSIX to an en_US > >> locale will have undesirable side effects, like commas as thousands > >> separators in numbers (because of LC_NUMERIC). Also the defaults of > >> en_US for LC_MEASUREMENT and LC_PAPER are only useful in the U.S. > >> > >> So if we change the default (but I still don't see the need), we > >> should go for a less intrusive setting like: > >> > >> LANG=3D"POSIX" > >> LC_CTYPE=3D"en_US.utf8" > >> > >> Ulrich > >> > > > > You're concerned about the commas breaking things? Given that you > > usually need to specifically ask for them (i.e., printf ' flag), > > and that kind of output is usually going to be for human > > consumption only that seems unlikely. If anything does rely upon > > the format, can't tolerate different locales, and fails to specify > > LC_NUMERIC then it's broken anyway. > > > > LC_MONETARY / LC_MEASUREMENT as en_US are probably slightly more > > annoying defaults for some people. What do users of other distros > > think? Is this really a serious problem for anyone? > > > > LC_CTYPE=3Den_US.utf8 would be a bare minimum. The important bit is > > getting utf8 by default. I can live with LANG=3DPOSIX. > > -- > > Dan Douglas >=20 > How about the below? >=20 > LANG=3Den_GB.utf8 > LC_COLLATE=3DC > LC_CTYPE=3Den_GB.utf8 >=20 > That will give us A4 paper size and the metric system. If LC_NUMERIC > is really a problem, we can set it to something more desirable. LC_NUMERIC=3Dpl_PL.utf8 --=20 Best regards, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny --Sig_/A.i4Sa+R13vmKE7Ra9.r2fL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iJwEAQEIAAYFAlASVhcACgkQfXuS5UK5QB39iQP/Z0UzSUGD7jKbh1Tq1txMm9kM J7E0vNLrdj+L3xyqkb2PZYxSO8Sr2FbI5LxSKXHezmbb5wHDEJmAitf9gfqbcCCO IySDGo4dSFf1zgx1aDBFPtvT89ENmF7sdKULfI0mtUlHZ3TD9uYM4qsycEFJrfsJ gI7OBbYzVQeLHcY2Uwc= =Tz9M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/A.i4Sa+R13vmKE7Ra9.r2fL--