From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Shfi1-0001jZ-I9 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:37:58 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B4FEE0A01; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:37:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com (mail-we0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64126E09B4 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werj55 with SMTP id j55so403063wer.40 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:37:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; bh=upcTCT9dkqNJNw+9RcUsrAOacZZtluMYQ2rCO+Ctr0E=; b=Dh1zKq/R2ecExM0NwNq+hZ6AFovqBfPOVuwPaTSnrojTDSm7eoWjcIFu3sq5yVjqMY 7Qfnx55V3V4QJHOooCSyc9Y4tqqyb+6Fp5r/Rstx3jL4dlMuEH1Wd0IEzoXMoNWABlAV kpcYLc1UEI3rowALBIf421Kbv1S1YpRFbClO01CgG0lKm29Z9Q0Jw8HvcsgWGBqai+20 wLrA3d+k98q2bL0RWhK7zN/13JWRjS+nW9cR1B0WWP9E+43jH+rnaRyM84Dg9bPlDN/D oO2HeNWE8IAxQwII/wFN2wrf4dXBGKm/5cY36DIGPxZpA3RLB/yMhLVKilG8wySiLUdF VxVg== Received: by 10.216.218.77 with SMTP id j55mr13368513wep.179.1340278629572; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowbell (switch57.dcs.gla.ac.uk. [130.209.241.107]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k8sm87979798wia.6.2012.06.21.04.37.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 04:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:37:01 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] My wishlist for EAPI 5 Message-ID: <20120621123701.3b515176@snowbell> In-Reply-To: <4FE30236.8030208@gentoo.org> References: <4FE231BA.6020404@gentoo.org> <20120620213518.4baf8150@googlemail.com> <4FE24408.40302@gentoo.org> <1340258936.2470.5.camel@belkin4> <20120621080039.0724cf8d@googlemail.com> <1340263510.2470.18.camel@belkin4> <4FE30236.8030208@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.24.4; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/pazBtT88plum34j=AQb2+sr"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 325cd055-d1c6-4e59-9fcd-43fb5483ad08 X-Archives-Hash: 00d371b02c3f066b9ddb3ae302f1df01 --Sig_/pazBtT88plum34j=AQb2+sr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:15:02 +0800 Patrick Lauer wrote: > > Then, looks clear to me that the way to get things approved in newer > > EAPIs is not clear enough as looks like a lot of devs (like me) > > don't know them (for example, when things to be added to EAPI need > > also a GLEP and a PMS diff, also the needing to get an > > implementation for any package manager). Is this documented in some > > place? > No, and this is a rather random ad-hoc requirement that hasn't been > specified before. It's dependent upon the level of complexity of the work, and whether or not anyone on the PMS team understands it enough to be able to do the work themselves. As far as I know, none of us do on this one, so it's down to whoever wants it to educate us enough that we can get it done... > All previous EAPI processes went through some debate with dev-portage@ > and the other involved people (mostly pkgcore/ferringb and > paludis/ciaranm), then the proposal got handed to council to vote on, > and if council was happy that proposal was hammered into PMS and the > new EAPI published. Most of the time new features had a crude > approximation of a patch for PMS available so that the documentation > updates were done in a timely manner. Actually, we've been passing pretty much final PMS patches to the Council to vote on.=20 > I have no idea why Ciaran is trying to redefine the process now > suddenly and why people are taking this nonsense seriously. I'm not. > I would say PMS team accepts what council signs off ... or am I seeing > the order wrong here? The PMS team makes suggestions to the Council, and the Council accepts a subset of those. The Council can also suggest that the PMS team looks at a particular feature, but as Gentoo has no mechanism in place for forcing work to get done, that only works if there's someone with both the time and the knowledge to figure it out. > So, the normal way to get a feature into the next EAPI is ... write a > specification to the best of your capabilities, present it here, when > people are done bashing it ask PMS people to help you prepare a PMS > patch so that you can suggest it to Council Yup, and for difficult cases like the ones under discussion, a part of presenting it is to demo a working implementation on real packages so that we gain real world experience of the feature. It's also important to note that "the best of your capabilities" may not be anywhere near enough for the PMS people or the package mangler people to do the remainder of the work. > and then it's mostly a > matter of waiting until the next EAPI is finalized (which currently > runs at a glacial pace of about one EAPI a year as far as I remember) I like how you simultaneously troll both sides of that issue. Weren't you previously claiming there were too many EAPIs and that we shouldn't have lots of new ones? --=20 Ciaran McCreesh --Sig_/pazBtT88plum34j=AQb2+sr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk/jB10ACgkQ96zL6DUtXhGsJwCbB4hlAkLHlPYWhD+o6YwJRdlL 208AoIIdJ7bImGnqovvqJf6yzoPl9HaY =t14v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/pazBtT88plum34j=AQb2+sr--