From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Shc4L-0007n5-TM for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:44:46 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B3C13E058E; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:44:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com (mail-we0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48489E09AF for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:43:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werj55 with SMTP id j55so245080wer.40 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:43:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; bh=GefySv9ao8ro/PP+WnnSb3otzfkuSnGq3O0B0ld9Ims=; b=POE1v1sD1iSEE2uC/SubwsqvShStMF2GpAEiNC70CJIGDnq51fUVVhRk1t7VLFVO3X a3ffrJrIiPgj3ol9AU9L/Ryh+Qr2oMwjVMh07zcFUr7OPCQD0kFyzmx8Ko/uoy7pw2QT jDScwFj6SiHRoL7tUWBW5rErJ4qvo21/1EfYRYFxCovY8TJpetIATUFhCNzrGOEwcXAq fjjNqnwDQKv1TGy/Ce5hgOzt2MQ4xKc6mKNRRRXZo8foFB0kFy2XvYORBfrApYuoJZMr atKto+KcUsiWzjT7Znvu3qWVlPT8RzC2ubiUOkmXD3LzxARA0OsJ9H1i2jYgKZcI9W9g o5WA== Received: by 10.216.216.154 with SMTP id g26mr8506573wep.120.1340264613341; Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (cpc13-broo7-2-0-cust130.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com. [82.9.16.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id db7sm44398928wib.6.2012.06.21.00.43.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:39:45 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] My wishlist for EAPI 5 Message-ID: <20120621083945.345d661a@googlemail.com> In-Reply-To: <1340263510.2470.18.camel@belkin4> References: <4FE231BA.6020404@gentoo.org> <20120620213518.4baf8150@googlemail.com> <4FE24408.40302@gentoo.org> <1340258936.2470.5.camel@belkin4> <20120621080039.0724cf8d@googlemail.com> <1340263510.2470.18.camel@belkin4> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.10; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/05fLmMB7HBtOfT7GyaY/Hc5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 81276ac6-44ed-421f-ac7c-45db9ab6764b X-Archives-Hash: 9c6768d00662e957c149af9f20981de3 --Sig_/05fLmMB7HBtOfT7GyaY/Hc5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:25:10 +0200 Pacho Ramos wrote: > Then, looks clear to me that the way to get things approved in newer > EAPIs is not clear enough as looks like a lot of devs (like me) don't > know them (for example, when things to be added to EAPI need also a > GLEP and a PMS diff, also the needing to get an implementation for any > package manager). That's very much a judgement call. If a feature is "easy", low impact and uncontroversial, you can ask for it on IRC, the mailing lists or bugzilla, and chances are someone will do all the work for you. If it's a big feature with broad impact requiring lots of changes, you need to do however much work is necessary such that a) the people working on PMS understand it well enough to document it, b) developers understand it well enough to know what it involves for them, c) the Council can compare and contrast it with other proposals, and d) it can be implemented. The "implement it in a package manager" thing is because of what happened with REQUIRED_USE. It hadn't been implemented previously, and as it turns out it has some fairly hefty usability issues. > > > I also don't understand why Gentoo is forced to stick with old > > > ways of doing things until new EAPI is approved > >=20 > > That's not what's going on here. The issue is that there might be > > one person who understands what "the new way of doing things", but > > he hasn't told us what he thinks that is. Once we get a proper > > explanation, getting an EAPI out doesn't take long. > >=20 >=20 > But you must confess that old problems like multilib support, force > package rebuilding or optional dep support are still pending while > still needing and, the problem with the way things are discussed now > is that some day anybody arises the problem again, other one demands > more things to be provided, a discussion starts, the problem gets > stalled... one year later the same problem arises again. There is > clearly a lack of information to the rest of developers about how to > propose anything to get accepted for next EAPI. The reason those are still pending is because no-one knows what the *problem* is, let alone the solution. That's not an EAPI issue, it's a developers saying "I want a flying unicorn!" issue. > Then, you accept exherbo is not forced to *only* follow EAPI while you > force Gentoo and portage to only support features approved in an EAPI? I think you have a severe misunderstanding of what the EAPI process is about here... It's not about forcing anything. The point of the EAPI process is to allow Gentoo to roll things out without requiring developers to rewrite all their ebuilds every few months (which happens on Exherbo, incidentally), and without breaking user systems. --=20 Ciaran McCreesh --Sig_/05fLmMB7HBtOfT7GyaY/Hc5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk/iz8QACgkQ96zL6DUtXhGRYgCfRbEkKqTPbBZd+sU72SofKKYx qvIAn0biq2XWYTi9u0LpwC31mWhiMC+R =Dc1B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/05fLmMB7HBtOfT7GyaY/Hc5--