From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1SE0nn-0000SV-V9 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:05:20 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F0F2EE0E91; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:05:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f53.google.com (mail-wg0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE39FE0E59 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:03:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbfm10 with SMTP id fm10so1348963wgb.10 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:03:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; bh=Vb1rSdLB6SBRdDYVQj0suua4bbFAMPw00udIfS8D8ww=; b=FgrWkmbxWPevdr9Fx5XC1sOOIaL+NHJBuSBakFUEldXOMD97X/uY7h4oBBUlbH/z7H LHmpGvwsUTWwlSrVE7XehiOeBoNfnsJuuBzqfpeh7QNGcp1grc4v30GEj2z8lRWwYA1B dtbf42DHn073EMbVpz5dAui1+x8HE2ODqoOC/htrOa9i4aob5olxd+gvYuqQliixuYu5 fpt++5G/V1zRUo35GU2JLB5OpE4tWLRuBqvt6AtZp/24qSB201wo9NvyeCack8MRwIJg JSXHk74KLawFBaGKJyWr89GXuIS6kFZXTKK1VDcybpFyfLgmbQil4RramHgMoj0M2iLN FpKQ== Received: by 10.180.95.34 with SMTP id dh2mr7510431wib.15.1333209834911; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (host-92-23-144-62.as13285.net. [92.23.144.62]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w10sm27501586wiy.3.2012.03.31.09.03.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:02:12 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Happy 10th birthday (in advance) Message-ID: <20120331170212.15001004@googlemail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20120330150041.c3f7684c.axel@james-b.ch> <4F75B45F.2050108@gentoo.org> <4F76226B.1020507@gentoo.org> <4F762BCF.9010204@cs.stonybrook.edu> <20120331085622.5650ca62@googlemail.com> <20120331105253.4a00ebcc@googlemail.com> <20120331155226.013342fa@googlemail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.10; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/ZAnuHHL9phjM4xsFQxx=pSg"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 0aa6cf03-ea8c-44e6-aece-c2864933d19e X-Archives-Hash: f3d378fe477544d870d4a01e28ea4921 --Sig_/ZAnuHHL9phjM4xsFQxx=pSg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:39:21 +0300 Alex Alexander wrote: > On Mar 31, 2012 5:57 PM, "Ciaran McCreesh" > wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:08:29 +0300 > > Alex Alexander wrote: > > > No. I didn't say I think it works, I said I have proof it works. > > > > Well that's interesting, because there are plenty of examples where > > it doesn't work, and all that it takes to disprove a theory is a > > single counterexample. So I think you're misunderstanding what > > constitutes proof here -- "some evidence" certainly isn't it. >=20 > Boring. You conveniently ignored the other part of my message. I was hoping you'd understand how your claim of proof was utterly unfounded. What you have is limited evidence of a very specific situation, which is a whole other thing. > I'll repeat it: no matter how much you argue, it'll still work fine > for me. And I'll spell it out. On the scale of "it works", you have a series of levels: 1. It compiles. 2. I tried it and I didn't see any breakages. 3. I tried it, and I checked carefully that nothing was broken. 4. I tried it on a wide range of valid inputs, and I checked carefully that nothing was broken. 5. I tried it on a wide range of valid inputs, including inputs designed to test edge cases, and I checked carefully that nothing was broken. 6. I tried it on a wide range of valid and invalid inputs, and I checked carefully that nothing was broken, and that the invalid inputs were handled correctly. 7. I carefully considered all the equivalence classes of inputs, and tested each. 8. I carefully considered all the equivalence classes of inputs, and can explain why each is handled correctly. 9. I can prove that it works. You're offering evidence of number 2, or possibly 3. Gentoo is a large system containing many interacting components, that is expected to keep working for long periods in many different unpleasant situations. We need to be at at least number 7 here, and ideally number 8. For preserve libs, the feature fails at number 4. --=20 Ciaran McCreesh --Sig_/ZAnuHHL9phjM4xsFQxx=pSg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk93KogACgkQ96zL6DUtXhFt9wCguzVeRD6wTP97pfUj0es24LLH i1UAoNKegl3huXZyge+CurlpEIx0QWqF =2XxC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/ZAnuHHL9phjM4xsFQxx=pSg--