From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1QRAS5-00076q-Nq for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 30 May 2011 21:56:45 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 657971C045; Mon, 30 May 2011 21:56:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pz0-f53.google.com (mail-pz0-f53.google.com [209.85.210.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA6C1C02E for ; Mon, 30 May 2011 21:56:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pzk6 with SMTP id 6so2053137pzk.40 for ; Mon, 30 May 2011 14:56:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=QWE37uvs4BK7N+qGidTs922Cw0a/5YVvxLMDbnAjgZk=; b=Je/bNT+81kalG/BP7sEfaQdZc9LJSJ8idIqokKNzQmtg32zbHwTkPrlyCKXWDWQjGw L72XScNQRZZq8aScTgre+cN7Obs8SZaORr6X/HzFcZ69MbSa8cN3m3t6RiXTc66hPVau nNJehaGg18FcwXzr8/pp4G04Z96dp9bTmYv+U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=Aq5zYSVpS/FJp/eyGrcOGZ2KYxOIazxg3890cufesSMf3Av46BH9fKm/OFBNbbh7xv lRJ14PLu0dD8uJyoPXa8gDbEuWKZK/btUhpyZxWwDpyMa9uJk/tNTgdvatDbL9UGlvGi GdYEY3QnygSkWqygQr3W9DpX8oiiJ02R11rfM= Received: by 10.68.68.239 with SMTP id z15mr2095876pbt.463.1306792559720; Mon, 30 May 2011 14:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.gmail.com (c-24-20-36-83.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [24.20.36.83]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a6sm3154261pbo.47.2011.05.30.14.55.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 30 May 2011 14:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp.gmail.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 30 May 2011 14:55:52 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 14:55:52 -0700 From: Brian Harring To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Council May Summary: Changes to ChangeLog handling Message-ID: <20110530215552.GA3908@hrair> References: <4DD24EBE.5060002@gentoo.org> <1305886782.17955.29.camel@localhost> <1306757022.9216.36.camel@tablet> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PNTmBPCT7hxwcZjr" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1306757022.9216.36.camel@tablet> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 6380a0a22d976c20e0b486848c0fb087 --PNTmBPCT7hxwcZjr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 04:03:42PM +0400, Peter Volkov wrote: > =D0=92 =D0=9F=D1=82=D0=BD, 20/05/2011 =D0=B2 13:19 +0300, Mart Raudsepp = =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82: > > On T, 2011-05-17 at 13:32 +0300, Petteri R=C3=A4ty wrote: > > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20110510-summary.t= xt > > >=20 > > > Please note that you must now update ChangeLog with each commit. For > > > more information please see the meeting log and the preceding mailing > > > list thread: > > >=20 > > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20110510.txt > > > http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_eaefa325b31360324d0fe53d0b9= 071e6.xml >=20 > So, I just realized that we have to update Changelogs for everything, > whitespaces and comments included. Even after reading meeting logs I > still wonder, why council have decided to vote policy change that was > not supported even by minority of developers? The majority support changelog maintenance for non-trivial changes;=20 meaning removals, additions, eclass/eapi changes, changing logic,=20 fixing build issues, etc. That's not really arguable, and for those=20 who don't support it- they're bluntly, wrong, the ChangeLog isn't for=20 devs (we have vcs logs after all)- it's for users, and that's the sort=20 of thing they need to see. The problem is, that's a *fuzzy* definition. Quoting myself from the=20 meeting: 19:37 <@ferringb> Arfrever: the kicker is, in certain cases, you're=20 partally right. 19:37 <@ferringb> Arfrever: the reality is, people will just adhere to=20 the letter of the law rather than the intent 19:37 <@ferringb> we already had that occur with removal 19:38 <@ferringb> stupid that we have to essentially legislate common=20 sense, but that's what it is right now ;) 19:39 < NeddySeagoon> ferringb, common sense is much rarer that you=20 might think :) 19:39 <@ferringb> NeddySeagoon: well aware If someone has a definition that is commonsense, then propose it- the=20 current "you must log everything" is very, very heavy handed and=20 basically was a forced situation since QA cannot make folks behave=20 when the rules are reliant on common sense. We cannot have situations where devs adhere to the exact wording of=20 the rules but violate the spirit, which is exactly what got us into=20 this mess in the first place. Proposals to refine changelog maintenance I'm definitely open to- I=20 very much hate that the situation basically forced us to go heavy=20 handed, but the reality is, w/out the rules QA can't do anything about=20 misbehaving folks- if they try, the argument becomes "I've not=20 violated any rules!". If QA is able to make decisions/actions on=20 their own without mapping directly back to rules, offenders start=20 claiming "the cabal is after me, I've not done anything wrong!". Basically, it's being stuck between a rock and hard place. Not sure=20 there is a solution there either. As said, come up w/ a proposal for that, closing the loopholes and I'm=20 very much interested; however you'll have a hell of a time trying to=20 define "non-trivial" in a manner that blocks people pulling=20 shenanigans. > The whole idea after human > editable ChangeLogs was to avoid whitespace changes and changes in > comments. In the current state it is possible to generate them on rsync > servers and avoid this burden. >=20 > I would like council to update policy to allow exclude whitespace > changes and changes in comments. It'll be on the schedule. ~harring --PNTmBPCT7hxwcZjr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk3kEmgACgkQsiLx3HvNzgct2gCglwfMguE0UVv48ycWKH9jnepE ZVEAnjH7MXGaiZzFVb++pExNU9h9Nikf =ZZw1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PNTmBPCT7hxwcZjr--