[gentoo-dev] PyXML

[gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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PyXML is dead:
  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html

PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
which might result in various problems.

I'm planning to implement the following solution:
- Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
  necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
  to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
  backported to new versions in older slots.
- All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
  code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:

import xml
if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
    xml.use_pyxml()

  This code works with previous versions of Python, so no changes in dependencies are needed.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Tomáš Chvátal]

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Dne 10.5.2011 23:21, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
> PyXML is dead:
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> 
> PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> which might result in various problems.
> 
> I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
>   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
>   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
>   backported to new versions in older slots.
> - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
>   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> 
> import xml
> if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
>     xml.use_pyxml()
> 
>   This code works with previous versions of Python, so no changes in dependencies are needed.
> 
Apart from not being developed is PyXML actualy broken so we can't wait
for upstream [1] to migrate their packages?

I see just one open bug for it when I search bugzilla.

[1] http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/dev-python/pyxml
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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2011-05-11 12:30:18 Tomáš Chvátal napisał(a):
> Dne 10.5.2011 23:21, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
> > PyXML is dead:
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> >
> > PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> > which might result in various problems.
> >
> > I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> > - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
> >   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
> >   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
> >   backported to new versions in older slots.
> > - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
> >   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> >
> > import xml
> > if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
> >     xml.use_pyxml()
> >
> >   This code works with previous versions of Python, so no changes in dependencies are needed.
> >
> Apart from not being developed is PyXML actualy broken so we can't wait
> for upstream [1] to migrate their packages?

PyXML provides code from 2004. Since then, there were many fixes in stdlib xml module.

The following commands test code from xml module (which might be _xmlplus) and show problems when
PyXML is installed:
python2.7 -m test.test_minidom
python2.7 -m test.test_pyexpat
python2.7 -m test.test_sax

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Mark Loeser]

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Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> PyXML is dead:
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> 
> PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> which might result in various problems.
> 
> I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
>   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
>   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
>   backported to new versions in older slots.
> - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
>   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> 
> import xml
> if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
>     xml.use_pyxml()

Is this "use_pyxml" upstream?  From what you are saying, it is not. In
that case, we have just made patches for every package that will never
be allowed upstream.  Why not do something more worthwhile than waste the
time of having to support something that might just become a problem to
maintain in the future?

-- 
Mark Loeser
email         -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
email         -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
web           -   http://www.halcy0n.com

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Markos Chandras]

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On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 01:11:57PM -0400, Mark Loeser wrote:
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> > PyXML is dead:
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> > 
> > PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> > which might result in various problems.
> > 
> > I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> > - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
> >   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
> >   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
> >   backported to new versions in older slots.
> > - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
> >   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> > 
> > import xml
> > if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
> >     xml.use_pyxml()
> 
> Is this "use_pyxml" upstream?  From what you are saying, it is not. In
> that case, we have just made patches for every package that will never
> be allowed upstream.  Why not do something more worthwhile than waste the
> time of having to support something that might just become a problem to
> maintain in the future?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Loeser
> email         -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
> email         -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
> web           -   http://www.halcy0n.com

I second that. Why do we need to make all the work fixing packages
instead of letting upstream do their job? I am not so excited to 
fix every package I maintain as it is quite possible to introduce
regressions in the process. Furthermore, I don't understand your first
message. You say that you will provide xml.use_pyxml() function on
python-2.7. Is this code official or you are just patching the official
python releases?
Anyway, as I said, I'd rather wait for upstream to fix their packages
instead of me.

Regards,
-- 
Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2011-05-17 19:32:23 Markos Chandras napisał(a):
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 01:11:57PM -0400, Mark Loeser wrote:
> > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> > > PyXML is dead:
> > >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
> > >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> > > 
> > > PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> > > which might result in various problems.
> > > 
> > > I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> > > - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
> > >   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
> > >   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
> > >   backported to new versions in older slots.
> > > - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
> > >   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> > > 
> > > import xml
> > > if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
> > >     xml.use_pyxml()
> > 
> > Is this "use_pyxml" upstream?  From what you are saying, it is not. In
> > that case, we have just made patches for every package that will never
> > be allowed upstream.  Why not do something more worthwhile than waste the
> > time of having to support something that might just become a problem to
> > maintain in the future?
> > 
> 
> I second that. Why do we need to make all the work fixing packages
> instead of letting upstream do their job? I am not so excited to 
> fix every package I maintain as it is quite possible to introduce
> regressions in the process. Furthermore, I don't understand your first
> message. You say that you will provide xml.use_pyxml() function on
> python-2.7. Is this code official or you are just patching the official
> python releases?
> Anyway, as I said, I'd rather wait for upstream to fix their packages
> instead of me.

Some upstreams are dead and some packages using PyXML will never be ported by upstreams to use
something else than PyXML (e.g. lxml).

$ python2.7
Python 2.7.1+ (2.7:572fbd9ca28f+, May 16 2011, 21:40:05) 
[GCC 4.5.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xml, _xmlplus
>>> xml_modules = set(xml.__all__)
>>> _xmlplus_modules = set(_xmlplus.__all__)
>>> xml_modules - _xmlplus_modules
set(['etree'])
>>> _xmlplus_modules - xml_modules
set(['xpath', 'utils', 'schema', 'marshal', 'xslt'])
>>>

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Mark Loeser]

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Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> > I second that. Why do we need to make all the work fixing packages
> > instead of letting upstream do their job? I am not so excited to 
> > fix every package I maintain as it is quite possible to introduce
> > regressions in the process. Furthermore, I don't understand your first
> > message. You say that you will provide xml.use_pyxml() function on
> > python-2.7. Is this code official or you are just patching the official
> > python releases?
> > Anyway, as I said, I'd rather wait for upstream to fix their packages
> > instead of me.
> 
> Some upstreams are dead and some packages using PyXML will never be ported by upstreams to use
> something else than PyXML (e.g. lxml).

Then those packages should get removed from the tree.  Do not start
introducing Gentoo specific hacks to work around the problem.

-- 
Mark Loeser
email         -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
email         -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
web           -   http://www.halcy0n.com

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2011-05-17 19:11:57 Mark Loeser napisał(a):
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> > PyXML is dead:
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> > 
> > PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> > which might result in various problems.
> > 
> > I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> > - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
> >   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
> >   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
> >   backported to new versions in older slots.
> > - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
> >   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> > 
> > import xml
> > if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
> >     xml.use_pyxml()
> 
> Is this "use_pyxml" upstream?

Python 2 is dead, so new features will never be added to Python 2 by Python upstream.

Before addition of xml.use_pyxml(), if user had many packages installed, which use xml module,
and 1 package installed, which needs PyXML, then the other packages were suffering from using
old code with more bugs.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2011-05-17 20:24:16 Mark Loeser napisał(a):
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> > > I second that. Why do we need to make all the work fixing packages
> > > instead of letting upstream do their job? I am not so excited to 
> > > fix every package I maintain as it is quite possible to introduce
> > > regressions in the process. Furthermore, I don't understand your first
> > > message. You say that you will provide xml.use_pyxml() function on
> > > python-2.7. Is this code official or you are just patching the official
> > > python releases?
> > > Anyway, as I said, I'd rather wait for upstream to fix their packages
> > > instead of me.
> > 
> > Some upstreams are dead and some packages using PyXML will never be ported by upstreams to use
> > something else than PyXML (e.g. lxml).
> 
> Then those packages should get removed from the tree.  Do not start
> introducing Gentoo specific hacks to work around the problem.

Majority of packages from http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/dev-python/pyxml seem to
have active upstreams, which doesn't mean they are actively working on porting these packages
to use something else than PyXML.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Tomáš Chvátal]

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Dne 10.5.2011 23:21, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
> PyXML is dead:
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> 
> PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> which might result in various problems.
> 
> I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
>   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
>   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
>   backported to new versions in older slots.
> - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
>   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> 
> import xml
> if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
>     xml.use_pyxml()
> 
>   This code works with previous versions of Python, so no changes in dependencies are needed.
> 
As I already asked,
what problem do we have to keep PyXML in main tree to be used with python2.

Your specific hack introduce different behaviour for python2.7.1-r2
where you do not explain the need for it at all.

It is just python2 thing and we can happily use PyXML as it works even
with latest python-2.7.

So where is the problem?

Failing python tests? Then patch PyXML itself to use it properly, but
keep it as is. When app migrate to py3 they will have to loose the PyXML
dependency anyway.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2011-05-17 20:43:29 Tomáš Chvátal napisał(a):
> Dne 10.5.2011 23:21, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
> > PyXML is dead:
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
> >   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> >
> > PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> > which might result in various problems.
> >
> > I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> > - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
> >   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
> >   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
> >   backported to new versions in older slots.
> > - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
> >   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> >
> > import xml
> > if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
> >     xml.use_pyxml()
> >
> >   This code works with previous versions of Python, so no changes in dependencies are needed.
> >
> As I already asked,
> what problem do we have to keep PyXML in main tree to be used with python2.
> 
> Your specific hack introduce different behaviour for python2.7.1-r2
> where you do not explain the need for it at all.

I had already explained it in many places.

> It is just python2 thing and we can happily use PyXML as it works even
> with latest python-2.7.
> 
> So where is the problem?

Fixes for at least the following bugs are absent when PyXML is installed:
http://bugs.python.org/issue4877
http://bugs.python.org/issue6098
http://bugs.python.org/issue5762
http://bugs.python.org/issue5027
http://bugs.python.org/issue9054
http://bugs.python.org/issue777884
http://bugs.python.org/issue1433694
http://bugs.python.org/issue847665
http://bugs.python.org/issue1472827
http://bugs.python.org/issue1094164
http://bugs.python.org/issue1309009
http://bugs.python.org/issue1262320
http://bugs.python.org/issue925152

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Tomáš Chvátal]

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Dne 17.5.2011 21:12, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
> 2011-05-17 20:43:29 Tomáš Chvátal napisał(a):
>> Dne 10.5.2011 23:21, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
>>> PyXML is dead:
>>>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
>>>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
>>>
>>> PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
>>> which might result in various problems.
>>>
>>> I'm planning to implement the following solution:
>>> - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
>>>   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
>>>   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
>>>   backported to new versions in older slots.
>>> - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
>>>   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
>>>
>>> import xml
>>> if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
>>>     xml.use_pyxml()
>>>
>>>   This code works with previous versions of Python, so no changes in dependencies are needed.
>>>
>> As I already asked,
>> what problem do we have to keep PyXML in main tree to be used with python2.
>>
>> Your specific hack introduce different behaviour for python2.7.1-r2
>> where you do not explain the need for it at all.
> 
> I had already explained it in many places.
> 
>> It is just python2 thing and we can happily use PyXML as it works even
>> with latest python-2.7.
>>
>> So where is the problem?
> 
> Fixes for at least the following bugs are absent when PyXML is installed:
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4877
> http://bugs.python.org/issue6098
> http://bugs.python.org/issue5762
> http://bugs.python.org/issue5027
> http://bugs.python.org/issue9054
> http://bugs.python.org/issue777884
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1433694
> http://bugs.python.org/issue847665
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1472827
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1094164
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1309009
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1262320
> http://bugs.python.org/issue925152
> 
2 options
1) fix PyXML
2) drop all packages including PyXML

Altering system package is not the option.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] PyXML

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2011-05-17 21:21:48 Tomáš Chvátal napisał(a):
> Dne 17.5.2011 21:12, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
> > 2011-05-17 20:43:29 Tomáš Chvátal napisał(a):
> >> Dne 10.5.2011 23:21, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis napsal(a):
> >>> PyXML is dead:
> >>>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2004-November/010735.html
> >>>   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2006-June/011545.html
> >>>
> >>> PyXML provides _xmlplus module, which replaces xml module (from standard library) at run time,
> >>> which might result in various problems.
> >>>
> >>> I'm planning to implement the following solution:
> >>> - Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will provide xml.use_pyxml() function. Calling of this function will be
> >>>   necessary to use replace xml module with _xmlplus module. Python >=2.7.1-r2:2.7 will be added
> >>>   to the tree in next week and will be temporarily package.masked. Later this change will be
> >>>   backported to new versions in older slots.
> >>> - All packages, which use PyXML, will have to be patched to call xml.use_pyxml(). The following
> >>>   code should be added before first import of anything from xml module:
> >>>
> >>> import xml
> >>> if hasattr(xml, "use_pyxml"):
> >>>     xml.use_pyxml()
> >>>
> >>>   This code works with previous versions of Python, so no changes in dependencies are needed.
> >>>
> >> As I already asked,
> >> what problem do we have to keep PyXML in main tree to be used with python2.
> >>
> >> Your specific hack introduce different behaviour for python2.7.1-r2
> >> where you do not explain the need for it at all.
> >
> > I had already explained it in many places.
> >
> >> It is just python2 thing and we can happily use PyXML as it works even
> >> with latest python-2.7.
> >>
> >> So where is the problem?
> >
> > Fixes for at least the following bugs are absent when PyXML is installed:
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue4877
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue6098
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue5762
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue5027
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue9054
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue777884
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue1433694
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue847665
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue1472827
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue1094164
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue1309009
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue1262320
> > http://bugs.python.org/issue925152
> >
> 2 options
> 1) fix PyXML
> 2) drop all packages including PyXML
> 
> Altering system package is not the option.

Changing of any package is always an option, when given change fixes or works around a problem
and its benefits outweigh costs. The patches for about 20 packages will be easy to maintain,
since there is easy algorithm of generation of these patches (addition of constant 3-line code
before first import of xml module).

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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