[gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Samuli Suominen]

USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.

This is preparation for dropping the uncompressed usb.ids file from
sys-apps/usbutils, which HAL relies on.

Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
prevent overlapping features.

-Samuli

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn]

Samuli Suominen schrieb:
> Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
> prevent overlapping features.
>    

The result of this is that KDE and Gnome are now not installable at the 
same time on a stable system.


Best regards,
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn]

Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn schrieb:
> Samuli Suominen schrieb:
>> Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
>> prevent overlapping features.
>
> The result of this is that KDE and Gnome are now not installable at the
> same time on a stable system.

Ah sorry, I was wrong. KDE and Gnome are installable at the same time
if you disable automounting support in KDE. However that situation is
still not great.


Best regards,
Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Rémi Cardona]

Le 27/03/2011 10:36, Samuli Suominen a écrit :
> Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
> prevent overlapping features.

Samuli,

I know you want to kill HAL with a vengeance. I don't disagree with the
ultimate goal but I think you've gone too far.

HAL and u{power,disks} are _perfectly_ parallel installable and there
are absolutely _no_ conflicts between the two.

Blockers should be used for _file_ conflicts, not for _feature_
conflicts, otherwise we'd have to mask and get rid of half (or even
more) of all the packages we provide in portage.

I urge to reconsider this blocker and mask.

Thanks

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Mike Frysinger]

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Rémi Cardona wrote:
> Le 27/03/2011 10:36, Samuli Suominen a écrit :
>> Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
>> prevent overlapping features.
>
> I know you want to kill HAL with a vengeance. I don't disagree with the
> ultimate goal but I think you've gone too far.
>
> HAL and u{power,disks} are _perfectly_ parallel installable and there
> are absolutely _no_ conflicts between the two.
>
> Blockers should be used for _file_ conflicts, not for _feature_
> conflicts, otherwise we'd have to mask and get rid of half (or even
> more) of all the packages we provide in portage.

latest pciutils blocks hal, so i think that should cover the "urge
people to migrate" aspect in ~arch
-mike

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Samuli Suominen]

On 03/28/2011 12:32 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Rémi Cardona wrote:
>> Le 27/03/2011 10:36, Samuli Suominen a écrit :
>>> Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
>>> prevent overlapping features.
>>
>> I know you want to kill HAL with a vengeance. I don't disagree with the
>> ultimate goal but I think you've gone too far.
>>
>> HAL and u{power,disks} are _perfectly_ parallel installable and there
>> are absolutely _no_ conflicts between the two.
>>
>> Blockers should be used for _file_ conflicts, not for _feature_
>> conflicts, otherwise we'd have to mask and get rid of half (or even
>> more) of all the packages we provide in portage.
> 
> latest pciutils blocks hal, so i think that should cover the "urge
> people to migrate" aspect in ~arch
> -mike
> 

I've changed this to be a bit more friendly.
As you pointed out, pciutils is one.
And ~arch version of upower is second.



KDE really needs to step up and get KDE 4.6.x stabilization bug open,
and this non-issue would become moot ;-)

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Andreas K. Huettel]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1074 bytes --]

> KDE really needs to step up and get KDE 4.6.x stabilization bug open,
> and this non-issue would become moot ;-)

True, we'd also have a new stable KDE rather sooner than later. It's only 
limited fun if upstream considers your stable version dead. :|

4.6.0 looked OK for a .0 release, some regressions compared to 4.5.5
4.6.1 introduced a lot of regressions compared to _4.6.0_!

One possible cause for this might be that upstream was (and still is) in the 
middle of the svn -> git migration, and that the 4.6.1 tarballs were pieced 
together "by hand" from different repositories... (*)

Anyway. 4.6.2 will be tagged on thursday, and we hope this is going to be a 
worthy stable candidate.

(and no, afaic that does not include kdepim...)

(*)
The discussion for 4.6.1: 
http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/release-team/2011-February/004572.html
The ongoing discussion for 4.6.2: 
http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/release-team/2011-March/004619.html

-- 

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer 
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/


[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org> wrote:
> USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
> and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.

app-cdr/k3b (abridged):
--- k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/26 14:40:09	1.4
+++ k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/27 17:04:14	1.5

-# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
1.4 2011/03/26 14:40:09 scarabeus Exp $
+# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
1.5 2011/03/27 17:04:14 ssuominen Exp $
-KEYWORDS="amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 x86"
+KEYWORDS="~amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 ~x86"

I filed bug 360899, but you might want to make sure that nothing else
was reverted from stable when these changes were made.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org> wrote:
> USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
> and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.

app-cdr/k3b (abridged):
--- k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/26 14:40:09	1.4
+++ k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/27 17:04:14	1.5

-# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
1.4 2011/03/26 14:40:09 scarabeus Exp $
+# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
1.5 2011/03/27 17:04:14 ssuominen Exp $
-KEYWORDS="amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 x86"
+KEYWORDS="~amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 ~x86"

I filed bug 360899, but you might want to make sure that nothing else
was reverted from stable when these changes were made.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> <stuff that shouldn't have gone to -dev-announce>

Apologies - did not take careful note of my headers.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Tomáš Chvátal]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dne 28.3.2011 13:25, Rich Freeman napsal(a):
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
>> and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.
> 
> app-cdr/k3b (abridged):
> --- k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/26 14:40:09	1.4
> +++ k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/27 17:04:14	1.5
> 
> -# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
> 1.4 2011/03/26 14:40:09 scarabeus Exp $
> +# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
> 1.5 2011/03/27 17:04:14 ssuominen Exp $
> -KEYWORDS="amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 x86"
> +KEYWORDS="~amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 ~x86"
> 
> I filed bug 360899, but you might want to make sure that nothing else
> was reverted from stable when these changes were made.
> 
> Rich
> 
Shit happens as it is used to say, albeit for next time it might better
rather than filling the bug fixing it yourself and just reporting it on
- -dev :) So it gets fixed faster :)

Tom
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk2QdRgACgkQHB6c3gNBRYdXHwCfdQkjjIzrbWGt/P9uydEmaTno
KocAnRGISAfcOif+FBnhlY3MEJP/1s7P
=zVPd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Rich Freeman]

2011/3/28 Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@gentoo.org>:
> Shit happens as it is used to say,

As demonstrated by my clumsy reply...  :)

> albeit for next time it might better
> rather than filling the bug fixing it yourself and just reporting it on
> - -dev :) So it gets fixed faster :)

Not if I test it properly (direct change in the stable tree to things
like HAL aren't something I'd do lightly - you guys at least know what
you were trying to accomplish and already have an answer should QA
come calling).

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Samuli Suominen]

On 03/28/2011 03:06 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> 2011/3/28 Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@gentoo.org>:
>> Shit happens as it is used to say,
> 
> As demonstrated by my clumsy reply...  :)
> 
>> albeit for next time it might better
>> rather than filling the bug fixing it yourself and just reporting it on
>> - -dev :) So it gets fixed faster :)
> 
> Not if I test it properly (direct change in the stable tree to things
> like HAL aren't something I'd do lightly - you guys at least know what
> you were trying to accomplish and already have an answer should QA
> come calling).
> 
> Rich
> 

well, it would have been fixed faster if you just poked me on IRC:
"ssuominen, fix your sh*t"

first time I've heard of this, was from scarabeus at IRC when it was
already fixed :)

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Samuli Suominen]

On 03/28/2011 02:25 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Samuli Suominen <ssuominen@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
>> and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.
> 
> app-cdr/k3b (abridged):
> --- k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/26 14:40:09	1.4
> +++ k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild	2011/03/27 17:04:14	1.5
> 
> -# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
> 1.4 2011/03/26 14:40:09 scarabeus Exp $
> +# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/app-cdr/k3b/k3b-2.0.2-r1.ebuild,v
> 1.5 2011/03/27 17:04:14 ssuominen Exp $
> -KEYWORDS="amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 x86"
> +KEYWORDS="~amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 ~x86"
> 
> I filed bug 360899, but you might want to make sure that nothing else
> was reverted from stable when these changes were made.
> 
> Rich
> 

No, this should be the only one.  I won't go into details, but I know
what happened there...

Sorry and thanks for catching it.

- Samuli

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Markos Chandras]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1035 bytes --]

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 11:36:00AM +0300, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
> and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.
> 
> This is preparation for dropping the uncompressed usb.ids file from
> sys-apps/usbutils, which HAL relies on.
> 
> Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
> prevent overlapping features.
> 
> -Samuli
> 

Good evening,

Why didn't you use the news utility to inform users about this change
and possible transition steps/migration guide? This is a rather big
change that might (or may not) require a bit of effort from non-power
users to migrate their systems to the new backend. A short summary of
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-858965-start-0.html
would be nice but I guess it is too late for that since another 
major change occurred without advertising it properly to our users.

Regards,
-- 
Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 836 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Gilles Dartiguelongue]

Le mardi 29 mars 2011 à 23:36 +0100, Markos Chandras a écrit :
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 11:36:00AM +0300, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> > USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
> > and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.
> > 
> > This is preparation for dropping the uncompressed usb.ids file from
> > sys-apps/usbutils, which HAL relies on.
> > 
> > Also, both udisks and upower now have blockers for sys-apps/hal to
> > prevent overlapping features.
> > 
> > -Samuli
> > 
> 
> Good evening,
> 
> Why didn't you use the news utility to inform users about this change
> and possible transition steps/migration guide? This is a rather big
> change that might (or may not) require a bit of effort from non-power
> users to migrate their systems to the new backend. A short summary of
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-858965-start-0.html
> would be nice but I guess it is too late for that since another 
> major change occurred without advertising it properly to our users.
> 
> Regards,

I wouldn't say it's too late for cases like this. A documentation about
reasons and ways to remove hal support and still get a nice desktop
experience is always re-assuring to users. Even if it comes one or two
weeks too late.

-- 
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Samuli Suominen]

On 03/30/2011 01:36 AM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 11:36:00AM +0300, Samuli Suominen wrote:
>> USE="hal" is masked in base/use.mask, but unmasked for kde-base/solid
>> and app-cdr/k3b in base/package.use.mask pending on KDE 4.6.x stabilization.
>>
> 
> Why didn't you use the news utility to inform users about this change
> and possible transition steps/migration guide? This is a rather big
> change that might (or may not) require a bit of effort from non-power

Let's stop here.   The mask has effect only on some 5-6 packages in
tree, and not even that many if you count only latest.  The big changes
happened long before this when each desktop stopped supporting it and it
falls under the umbrella of said desktops to inform their users if they
feel it's necessary.

> users to migrate their systems to the new backend. A short summary of
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-858965-start-0.html
> would be nice but I guess it is too late for that since another 
> major change occurred without advertising it properly to our users.

I don't like the idea of using unofficial forums posts in official news
items.   That said, tampakrap converted the post to guidexml once, but
it needs polishing up.  Volunteers are required to clean it up.


That said, I still support the idea of news item, just not the idea of
you trying to dump the responsibility from the desktop maintainers to me...

- Samuli

Re: [gentoo-dev] FYI: USE="hal" masked in base/use.mask and related

[Markos Chandras]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 614 bytes --]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 01:27:48PM +0300, Samuli Suominen wrote:
> 
> That said, I still support the idea of news item, just not the idea of
> you trying to dump the responsibility from the desktop maintainers to me...
> 
> - Samuli
> 

That wasn't my attempt at all. I am sorry if I expressed in a wrong way.
My main concern was that this kind of changes require a specific
transition steps which are not always obvious to most of us. Even me who
actively participate in ML and forums had problems during this
migration. 

Regards,
-- 
Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 836 bytes --]