[gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
active version of Python. I would like to encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining
packages.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Peter Volkov]

В Пнд, 25/10/2010 в 15:37 +0200, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
пишет:
> I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
> supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
> only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
> active version of Python.

How many packages left?

-- 
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2010-10-25 15:50:23 Peter Volkov napisał(a):
> В Пнд, 25/10/2010 в 15:37 +0200, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis пишет:
> > I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
> > supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
> > only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
> > active version of Python.
> 
> How many packages left?

Currently I don't know. I would have to perform some grep checks to try to calculate it.

I think that each developer could start using Python 3.1 as main active version of Python now,
at least until he/she finds not yet prepared packages. There's a chance that such packages aren't
installed on his/her system.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Thilo Bangert]

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Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> 2010-10-25 15:50:23 Peter Volkov napisał(a):
> > В Пнд, 25/10/2010 в 15:37 +0200, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis 
пишет:
> > > I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active
> > > version of Python be officially supported and recommended for
> > > Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages
> > > supporting only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in
> > > situation when Python 3.* is set as main active version of Python.
> > 
> > How many packages left?
> 
> Currently I don't know. I would have to perform some grep checks to try
> to calculate it.
> 
> I think that each developer could start using Python 3.1 as main active
> version of Python now, 

awesome! how do I do that? i assume recent portage versions support 
python3, correct?

also, is there a list of the most common gotchas?

thanks

Thilo

> at least until he/she finds not yet prepared
> packages. There's a chance that such packages aren't installed on
> his/her system.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2010-10-25 19:16:56 Thilo Bangert napisał(a):
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> said:
> > 2010-10-25 15:50:23 Peter Volkov napisał(a):
> > > В Пнд, 25/10/2010 в 15:37 +0200, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis 
> пишет:
> > > > I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active
> > > > version of Python be officially supported and recommended for
> > > > Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages
> > > > supporting only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in
> > > > situation when Python 3.* is set as main active version of Python.
> > > 
> > > How many packages left?
> > 
> > Currently I don't know. I would have to perform some grep checks to try
> > to calculate it.
> > 
> > I think that each developer could start using Python 3.1 as main active
> > version of Python now, 
> 
> awesome! how do I do that?

eselect python set python3.1

> i assume recent portage versions support python3, correct?

Yes.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
<Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
> supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
> only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
> active version of Python. I would like to encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining
> packages.
>

I do not think this is a useful expenditure of developer time. There's
absolutely no hurry to start using Python 3 since 99.9% of upstreams
do not have officially supported ports yet. We can revisit this when
the upstreams of half the packages in-tree start using Python 3 by
default (this will probably take more than a year).

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team

Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Gilles Dartiguelongue]

Le lundi 25 octobre 2010 à 19:44 +0530, Nirbheek Chauhan a écrit :
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
> > supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
> > only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
> > active version of Python. I would like to encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining
> > packages.
> >
> 
> I do not think this is a useful expenditure of developer time. There's
> absolutely no hurry to start using Python 3 since 99.9% of upstreams
> do not have officially supported ports yet. We can revisit this when
> the upstreams of half the packages in-tree start using Python 3 by
> default (this will probably take more than a year).
> 

to reply to you and Fabio, note that Arfrever is not suggesting you
start using python3.

He suggests you have it as your default python interpreter which does
not mean applications will magically start using it.

It will however allow easier spotting of application that have not been
prepared by ebuilds to run correctly  with /usr/bin/python
or /usr/bin/env python being python3 by default.

The fix is generally easy, lots of gnome ebuilds have been fixed for
gnome 2.32 and we expect the situation to be fully handled when it will
be unmasked.

-- 
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Fabio Erculiani]

Please, just, no.
Projects and people are just not ready, yet. And even Python experts
at #python tell to stay away from Py3, last time I checked.

-- 
Fabio Erculiani

Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2010-10-25 16:37:38 Fabio Erculiani napisał(a):
> Please, just, no.
> Projects and people are just not ready, yet. And even Python experts
> at #python tell to stay away from Py3, last time I checked.

#python channel isn't maintained by Python upstream developers.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Michał Górny]

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On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 15:37:41 +0200
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active
> version of Python be officially supported and recommended for Gentoo
> developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting only
> Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when
> Python 3.* is set as main active version of Python. I would like to
> encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining packages.

I don't see a reason to do so until issue #9561 is fixed [1]. Right now
this means, that packages may fail to install randomly due to locale
settings.

[1] http://bugs.python.org/issue9561

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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On 25-10-2010 13:37, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
> supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
> only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
> active version of Python. I would like to encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining
> packages.

Until we're certain that will not cause automatic weekly stages and cds
to fail to build again, please don't.
I'm willing to do local work to test this to ensure the stages and cds
build and work correctly, but I'm likely going to need some help from
the python team.

- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2010-10-26 02:45:10 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto napisał(a):
> On 25-10-2010 13:37, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> > I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
> > supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
> > only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
> > active version of Python. I would like to encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining
> > packages.
> 
> Until we're certain that will not cause automatic weekly stages and cds
> to fail to build again, please don't.

I suggest some changes for Gentoo developers (so that they can find, report and potentially
fix bugs before other users would reproduce these bugs), not weekly stages or cds.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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On 29-10-2010 23:24, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> 2010-10-26 02:45:10 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto napisał(a):
>> On 25-10-2010 13:37, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>>> I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
>>> supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
>>> only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
>>> active version of Python. I would like to encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining
>>> packages.
>>
>> Until we're certain that will not cause automatic weekly stages and cds
>> to fail to build again, please don't.
> 
> I suggest some changes for Gentoo developers (so that they can find, report and potentially
> fix bugs before other users would reproduce these bugs), not weekly stages or cds.

If your proposal is only about telling people, starting by developers,
to use Python-3.1 as their default python version so they can test it
and help iron out any bugs and no change is going to be committed to the
tree any time soon to make python-3.1 as default, then the proposal is
of no consequence and I dare to say no interest to the Release
Engineering team.
However, if you're trying to force the use of python-3.1 in the tree and
plan to commit changes that will do so, then yours is not an acceptable
answer, in particular given recent history. Consumers of the stable tree
are not and should not be treated as "guinea pigs".
Given the previous effects on the automated builds, in this case, I'll
request for the Release Engineering team a moratorium on making
Python-3.1 the default python version on a system until the releng team
can test and ensure that won't break the automated builds.

Gentoo developers need to take into consideration users of the stable
tree and should remember that the automated weekly cds and stages are
built from stable ebuilds. Thus any breakage on a stable ebuild can kill
the automated builds or lead to unusable cds and or stages.

- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Support for Python 3

[Stanislav Ochotnicky]

On 10/25/2010 03:37 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> I would like to suggest that setting Python 3.1 as main active version of Python be officially
> supported and recommended for Gentoo developers since 2010-12-01. Majority of packages supporting
> only Python 2.* have been prepared to work correctly in situation when Python 3.* is set as main
> active version of Python. I would like to encourage other developers to work on fixing remaining
> packages.


On a related note:
Just this week a group appeared in Fedora with objective to help port
3rd party modules to Python 3. There is even a dedicated mailing list
(python-porting). They are actively seeking contributors from across the
distributions so I am sure any devs that want to see Python 3 default on
Gentoo will be welcome :-)

Blog post mentioning the start and ML address:
http://anonbadger.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/python3-porting-organization/



-- 
Stanislav Ochotnicky
jabber: stanislav@ochotnicky.com
PGP: 0x71A1677C