[gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Markos Chandras]

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Hi there

net-proxy/squid needs your love. Bug #311927 and Bug #304751 require a
version bump. Our user community did an excellent job there providing an
improved ebuild for that. Furthermore there are several open security
bugs wrt squid [1][2][3][4]. net-proxy herd what is your status?
Security bugs should be your first priority. If you are unable to
maintain certain packages you could ask for help instead of staying
quiet. Maybe we should list this
package as maintainer-needed and request some proxy-maintainers from our
user community. What do you think about that?

@Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
active and which are dead

@QA: Should step up and commit these ebuilds just to get
rid of the security bugs which, frankly, don't look that good ( distro
wise ). I know technically is not our job, but we need to step up here
and either fix the security bugs since net-proxy can't do that, or mask
this package which is a no-go.

[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/261208
[2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/279379
[3] http://bugs.gentoo.org/279380
[4] http://bugs.gentoo.org/301828

-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Petteri Räty]

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On 08/04/2010 02:50 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:

> 
> @Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
> single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
> active and which are dead
> 

Pruning projects that don't actively elect a lead would be a good start
and that doesn't require anything from the council to be implemented.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Markos Chandras]

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On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 07:12:18PM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> On 08/04/2010 02:50 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> 
> > 
> > @Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
> > single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
> > active and which are dead
> > 
> 
> Pruning projects that don't actively elect a lead would be a good start
> and that doesn't require anything from the council to be implemented.
> 
> Regards,
> Petteri
> 
Don't you think we need a team for that? Who is eligible to filter the project
list and ask status updates from them?


-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410

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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Petteri Räty]

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On 08/04/2010 08:34 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 07:12:18PM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
>> On 08/04/2010 02:50 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> @Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
>>> single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
>>> active and which are dead
>>>
>>
>> Pruning projects that don't actively elect a lead would be a good start
>> and that doesn't require anything from the council to be implemented.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Petteri
>>
> Don't you think we need a team for that? Who is eligible to filter the project
> list and ask status updates from them?
> 

I think undertakers can take care of any possible cleanup commits as
they already touch project pages for developer retirements. If you want
to join for that purpose just be in contact with them and I think they
will accept my proposal. As for just status queries I think anyone could
query the status from projects and nothing special is required. Of
course we should coordinate so that many simultaneous queries are not done.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Markos Chandras]

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On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 08:47:36PM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> On 08/04/2010 08:34 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 07:12:18PM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> >> On 08/04/2010 02:50 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> @Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
> >>> single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
> >>> active and which are dead
> >>>
> >>
> >> Pruning projects that don't actively elect a lead would be a good start
> >> and that doesn't require anything from the council to be implemented.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Petteri
> >>
> > Don't you think we need a team for that? Who is eligible to filter the project
> > list and ask status updates from them?
> > 
> 
> I think undertakers can take care of any possible cleanup commits as
> they already touch project pages for developer retirements. 
Is there enough manpower for that ?
> If you want
> to join for that purpose just be in contact with them and I think they
> will accept my proposal. 
I wish I could but I am involved in way too many projects. Maybe on September.
> As for just status queries I think anyone could
> query the status from projects and nothing special is required. Of
> course we should coordinate so that many simultaneous queries are not done.
> 
> Regards,
> Petteri
> 
The inactivity of many herds most of the time blocks the work of some other
herds. Isn't council's responsibility to step up and resolve these
interproject issues? It shouldn't be that difficult to ask for monthly project
status updates ( A simple "Yes, we are alive but slow kthxbye" would be
sufficient, just to know that somebody is actually listening to that e-mail
alias after all ), discuss this on Council's monthly meetings ( Shouldn't it take 
more than 20' if you already have the status updates on your Inbox ) and decide whether
you should prune these herds or not. IMHO undertakers cannot handle the load
atm but council can.

Furthermore this inactivity ( as I said before ) doesn't look that good at all
to our user community . Moreover it seems like dead herds don't even
bother to ask for help or "hire" more proxy maintainers to co-maintainer some
of their ebuilds. They just stay quiet on their corner and do nothing. Since
Council is supposed to be the leading entity of Gentoo I was wondering how
come this issue never popped up on any of your meetings. Do you really don't
see a problem here or I am just that weird and everything is running smoothly?


-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410

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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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On 06-08-2010 22:54, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 08:47:36PM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
>> On 08/04/2010 08:34 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 07:12:18PM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
>>>> On 08/04/2010 02:50 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> @Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
>>>>> single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
>>>>> active and which are dead
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pruning projects that don't actively elect a lead would be a good start
>>>> and that doesn't require anything from the council to be implemented.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Petteri
>>>>
>>> Don't you think we need a team for that? Who is eligible to filter the project
>>> list and ask status updates from them?
>>>
>>
>> I think undertakers can take care of any possible cleanup commits as
>> they already touch project pages for developer retirements. 
> Is there enough manpower for that ?

I've been meaning to raise this issue again in the council.
At one point in time, around 4 years ago, a GentooStatus project was
created under User Relations[1]. That project didn't last too long.
Before and after that, a few developers have raised questions about this
issue, some even started a few "What do we <herd|project> do?" threads
now and again and the issue was brought to a few council meetings.
Getting to the point of who is or should be responsible for this issue,
I'd like to point everyone to a little project that seems to have been
forgotten - "metastructure". I've thought before on joining that project
as it seems the natural place to track the status of our projects and it
doesn't seem to be active any longer.
Addressing the suggestion to move this to undertakers, we could run the
scripts to clean the project pages and update the metadata, but we
neither have enough people nor are we "entitled" to go around poking
herds and projects about their status.
In the past, one objection that was constantly raised about mandatory
period updates was that someone could just set up a cron job for it.

>> If you want
>> to join for that purpose just be in contact with them and I think they
>> will accept my proposal. 
> I wish I could but I am involved in way too many projects. Maybe on September.
>> As for just status queries I think anyone could
>> query the status from projects and nothing special is required. Of
>> course we should coordinate so that many simultaneous queries are not done.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Petteri
>>
> The inactivity of many herds most of the time blocks the work of some other
> herds. Isn't council's responsibility to step up and resolve these
> interproject issues? It shouldn't be that difficult to ask for monthly project
> status updates ( A simple "Yes, we are alive but slow kthxbye" would be
> sufficient, just to know that somebody is actually listening to that e-mail
> alias after all ), discuss this on Council's monthly meetings ( Shouldn't it take 
> more than 20' if you already have the status updates on your Inbox ) and decide whether
> you should prune these herds or not. IMHO undertakers cannot handle the load
> atm but council can.

The issue to me is not council inquiring about projects / herds status,
but the aftermath of that. Some people argue that the council should be
able to close projects and or reform our structure. I don't like that
for the reasons I've stated on my manifesto.
About the montly updates check my above note about the cron jobs.
One thing that has been raised and I think we can already do, is to have
someone (who? - I'd suggest a reformed metastructure project) follow the
yearly projects elections and report them on a global page about teams
and leads. Another option would be to have the elections team publish
all results under its project space.
As GLEP39 already mandates on its specification[4] that all projects
"must occur at least once every 12 months", we can have the
metastructure project report any cases where that doesn't happen to the
dev ml. What should happen after that is something I think the project
needs to address. I'd prefer to have it done in the reform of GLEP39
process.

> Furthermore this inactivity ( as I said before ) doesn't look that good at all
> to our user community . Moreover it seems like dead herds don't even
> bother to ask for help or "hire" more proxy maintainers to co-maintainer some
> of their ebuilds. They just stay quiet on their corner and do nothing. Since
> Council is supposed to be the leading entity of Gentoo I was wondering how
> come this issue never popped up on any of your meetings. Do you really don't
> see a problem here or I am just that weird and everything is running smoothly?

This has been raised on previous council meetings, as far as I can
remember not recently, though.
I agree Gentoo has a problem with dead teams, but I don't think this
problem can be fixed "by decree". Either we can get new people
interested in a team or if possible we may have to drop it, but I
believe a team status won't change just because council labels it as
"moribund" or "dead".

 [1] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/gentoostatus/
 [2] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/metastructure/
 [3] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0039.html
 [4] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0039.html#specification

- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections
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Re: [gentoo-dev] net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Markos Chandras]

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On Sun, Aug 08, 2010 at 11:06:51AM +0000, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> >>
> > The inactivity of many herds most of the time blocks the work of some other
> > herds. Isn't council's responsibility to step up and resolve these
> > interproject issues? It shouldn't be that difficult to ask for monthly project
> > status updates ( A simple "Yes, we are alive but slow kthxbye" would be
> > sufficient, just to know that somebody is actually listening to that e-mail
> > alias after all ), discuss this on Council's monthly meetings ( Shouldn't it take 
> > more than 20' if you already have the status updates on your Inbox ) and decide whether
> > you should prune these herds or not. IMHO undertakers cannot handle the load
> > atm but council can.
> 
> The issue to me is not council inquiring about projects / herds status,
> but the aftermath of that. Some people argue that the council should be
> able to close projects and or reform our structure. I don't like that
> for the reasons I've stated on my manifesto.
> About the montly updates check my above note about the cron jobs.
> One thing that has been raised and I think we can already do, is to have
> someone (who? - I'd suggest a reformed metastructure project) follow the
> yearly projects elections and report them on a global page about teams
> and leads. Another option would be to have the elections team publish
> all results under its project space.
I really really really doubt that most of our projects run yearly elections.
Instead of having one person following every project status updates, make the
project leads sending reports to e.g. gentoo-project ML about status updates.
Something like [Qt project]: 4 active, 15 inactive members, elections two
months ago, we need more manpower is sufficient. Posting such reports on
public ML will help users to track down project needs and step up and help if
needed. If we have enough manpower we can have a global page as well
> As GLEP39 already mandates on its specification[4] that all projects
> "must occur at least once every 12 months", we can have the
> metastructure project report any cases where that doesn't happen to the
> dev ml. What should happen after that is something I think the project
> needs to address. I'd prefer to have it done in the reform of GLEP39
> process.
Sure but you need to give this project powerzzzz to smash down any project
that fails to report its status as well. 
> 
> > Furthermore this inactivity ( as I said before ) doesn't look that good at all
> > to our user community . Moreover it seems like dead herds don't even
> > bother to ask for help or "hire" more proxy maintainers to co-maintainer some
> > of their ebuilds. They just stay quiet on their corner and do nothing. Since
> > Council is supposed to be the leading entity of Gentoo I was wondering how
> > come this issue never popped up on any of your meetings. Do you really don't
> > see a problem here or I am just that weird and everything is running smoothly?
> 
> This has been raised on previous council meetings, as far as I can
> remember not recently, though.
> I agree Gentoo has a problem with dead teams, but I don't think this
> problem can be fixed "by decree". Either we can get new people
> interested in a team 
Really? I am pretty sure that there are quite a lot of people out there that
want to help but they simply can't get in touch with slow ( lets don't say
"dear" ) projects. Just look at the bugs of these projects. There are tons of
patches attached but projects don't give a shit.
> or if possible we may have to drop it, but I
> believe a team status won't change just because council labels it as
> "moribund" or "dead".
This is not about labeling. This is about reality. If a project is really
dead, remove it from the list, assign the bugs to maintainer-needed and let
everybody know that there is really nobody looking after these packages. 

I think users prefer a smaller ( ebuild number wise ) but more active project than a big and slow
one.

-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410

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[gentoo-dev] Re: net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Alin Năstac]

Hi Markos,

I'm very busy in real life, but I'll try to solve all squid issues this
week.
Btw, [2]  and [3] were solved from net-proxy's perspective and [1]
wasn't fixed by upstream AFAIK.

Cheers,
Alin

On 04/08/2010 13:50, Markos Chandras wrote:
> Hi there
> 
> net-proxy/squid needs your love. Bug #311927 and Bug #304751 require a
> version bump. Our user community did an excellent job there providing an
> improved ebuild for that. Furthermore there are several open security
> bugs wrt squid [1][2][3][4]. net-proxy herd what is your status?
> Security bugs should be your first priority. If you are unable to
> maintain certain packages you could ask for help instead of staying
> quiet. Maybe we should list this
> package as maintainer-needed and request some proxy-maintainers from our
> user community. What do you think about that?
> 
> @Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
> single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
> active and which are dead
> 
> @QA: Should step up and commit these ebuilds just to get
> rid of the security bugs which, frankly, don't look that good ( distro
> wise ). I know technically is not our job, but we need to step up here
> and either fix the security bugs since net-proxy can't do that, or mask
> this package which is a no-go.
> 
> [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/261208
> [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/279379
> [3] http://bugs.gentoo.org/279380
> [4] http://bugs.gentoo.org/301828
> 

[gentoo-dev] Re: net-proxy/squid needs your love

[Markos Chandras]

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On Wed, Aug 04, 2010 at 07:10:28PM +0200, Alin Năstac wrote:
> Hi Markos,
> 
> I'm very busy in real life, but I'll try to solve all squid issues this
> week.
> Btw, [2]  and [3] were solved from net-proxy's perspective and [1]
> wasn't fixed by upstream AFAIK.
> 
> Cheers,
> Alin
>
Hi

Thanks for stepping up. If you need more manpower just yell and ask for help from
our users. Furthermore, Kerin Millar did an excellent job on bug #311927 so
you could work with him ( and co-maintain squid if you want ). That would be
the best way imho to keep squid in a good shape :)

Seems like my post created some noise and squid will move forward soon \o/
> On 04/08/2010 13:50, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > Hi there
> > 
> > net-proxy/squid needs your love. Bug #311927 and Bug #304751 require a
> > version bump. Our user community did an excellent job there providing an
> > improved ebuild for that. Furthermore there are several open security
> > bugs wrt squid [1][2][3][4]. net-proxy herd what is your status?
> > Security bugs should be your first priority. If you are unable to
> > maintain certain packages you could ask for help instead of staying
> > quiet. Maybe we should list this
> > package as maintainer-needed and request some proxy-maintainers from our
> > user community. What do you think about that?
> > 
> > @Council: Yet another example that we need to track the status of every
> > single project in order to have a clear picture of which projects are
> > active and which are dead
> > 
> > @QA: Should step up and commit these ebuilds just to get
> > rid of the security bugs which, frankly, don't look that good ( distro
> > wise ). I know technically is not our job, but we need to step up here
> > and either fix the security bugs since net-proxy can't do that, or mask
> > this package which is a no-go.
> > 
> > [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/261208
> > [2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/279379
> > [3] http://bugs.gentoo.org/279380
> > [4] http://bugs.gentoo.org/301828
> > 
> 

-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410

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