[gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Hanno Böck]

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vpx for supporting googles vp8 codec used in webm.

At the moment this is only mplayer and ffmpeg, but it's pretty obvious that 
apps supporting vp8 will start popping up everywhere (currently working on 
arista ebuild which will support it).

Though we might discuss if vpx is really a good name or it shouldn't be vp8.

-- 
Hanno Böck		Blog:		http://www.hboeck.de/
GPG: 3DBD3B20		Jabber/Mail:	hanno@hboeck.de

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

["Paweł Hajdan, Jr."]

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On 7/31/10 4:37 AM, Hanno Böck wrote:
> vpx for supporting googles vp8 codec used in webm.
> 
> At the moment this is only mplayer and ffmpeg, but it's pretty obvious that 
> apps supporting vp8 will start popping up everywhere (currently working on 
> arista ebuild which will support it).

Just verifying: does the vpx USE flag in ffmpeg control the support for
encoding vp8, decoding it, or both? How should www-client/chromium
depend on ffmpeg to make sure it will support vp8?

> Though we might discuss if vpx is really a good name or it shouldn't be vp8.

It might also be webm. Not sure what's more intuitive for people. Also,
nteresting question would be whether to enable the flag by default an in
which profiles (desktop?).

Paweł


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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Robert Bridge]

On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 4:09 PM, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
<phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 7/31/10 4:37 AM, Hanno Böck wrote:
>> Though we might discuss if vpx is really a good name or it shouldn't be vp8.
>
> It might also be webm. Not sure what's more intuitive for people. Also,
> nteresting question would be whether to enable the flag by default an in
> which profiles (desktop?).

Speaking as a user, I would ask what the standard file ending is? Most
users won't know what the codec is, they will just know is foo.webm or
foo.vpx/8.

Just a thought if debating the name.

RobbieAB.

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Jacob Godserv]

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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:30:06 +0100
Robert Bridge <robert@robbieab.com> wrote:

> Speaking as a user, I would ask what the standard file ending is? Most
> users won't know what the codec is, they will just know is foo.webm or
> foo.vpx/8.
> 
> Just a thought if debating the name.

Honestly not sure what convention is for naming, but I found this
recently, and thought I might throw it out there:

 ~ $ euse -i lame
....
[+ C  ] lame - Prefer using LAME libraries for MP3 encoding support
....

While, as a user, I prefer this to be mp3, I also understand there may
be more than one library for such-and-so, so I'm willing to read up on
USE flags to find out which is the best to use. Overall, I would prefer
naming according to the names of the libraries they'll enable.

-- 
    Jacob

    "For then there will be great distress, unequaled
    from the beginning of the world until now — and never
    to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut
    short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the
    elect those days will be shortened."

    Are you ready?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Saturday, July 31, 2010 14:27:14 Jacob Godserv wrote:
> Honestly not sure what convention is for naming, but I found this
> recently, and thought I might throw it out there:
> 
>  ~ $ euse -i lame
> ....
> [+ C  ] lame - Prefer using LAME libraries for MP3 encoding support
> ....
> 
> While, as a user, I prefer this to be mp3, I also understand there may
> be more than one library for such-and-so, so I'm willing to read up on
> USE flags to find out which is the best to use. Overall, I would prefer
> naming according to the names of the libraries they'll enable.

that example isnt relevant.  notice how the description includes the word 
"prefer" and isnt just "enable mp3 support".

USE=mp3 is how you get mp3 support.  if there are multiple options (like 
ffmpeg or lame or mpg123 or something else), then USE=lame shows up to select 
one particular implementation over another.  but it would still be:
USE="mp3 lame"
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Steve Dibb]

On 07/31/2010 12:51 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Saturday, July 31, 2010 14:27:14 Jacob Godserv wrote:
>> Honestly not sure what convention is for naming, but I found this
>> recently, and thought I might throw it out there:
>>
>>   ~ $ euse -i lame
>> ....
>> [+ C  ] lame - Prefer using LAME libraries for MP3 encoding support
>> ....
>>
>> While, as a user, I prefer this to be mp3, I also understand there may
>> be more than one library for such-and-so, so I'm willing to read up on
>> USE flags to find out which is the best to use. Overall, I would prefer
>> naming according to the names of the libraries they'll enable.
>
> that example isnt relevant.  notice how the description includes the word
> "prefer" and isnt just "enable mp3 support".

The description is misleading, and needs to be changed.  Just because 
something has an mp3 and a lame use flag, it does not mean that flipping 
on lame means that the application will prefer lame over mad or mpg123.

</nit>

Steve

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Saturday, July 31, 2010 16:02:51 Steve Dibb wrote:
> On 07/31/2010 12:51 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Saturday, July 31, 2010 14:27:14 Jacob Godserv wrote:
> >> Honestly not sure what convention is for naming, but I found this
> >> 
> >> recently, and thought I might throw it out there:
> >>   ~ $ euse -i lame
> >> 
> >> ....
> >> [+ C  ] lame - Prefer using LAME libraries for MP3 encoding support
> >> ....
> >> 
> >> While, as a user, I prefer this to be mp3, I also understand there may
> >> be more than one library for such-and-so, so I'm willing to read up on
> >> USE flags to find out which is the best to use. Overall, I would prefer
> >> naming according to the names of the libraries they'll enable.
> > 
> > that example isnt relevant.  notice how the description includes the word
> > "prefer" and isnt just "enable mp3 support".
> 
> The description is misleading, and needs to be changed.  Just because
> something has an mp3 and a lame use flag, it does not mean that flipping
> on lame means that the application will prefer lame over mad or mpg123.

sounds like a bug in the package, or the package metadata.xml needs updating.  
the current lame desc sounds fine to me.
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Arun Raghavan]

On 1 August 2010 01:32, Steve Dibb <beandog@gentoo.org> wrote:
[...]
> The description is misleading, and needs to be changed.  Just because
> something has an mp3 and a lame use flag, it does not mean that flipping on
> lame means that the application will prefer lame over mad or mpg123.

lame (the MP3 encoder) has nothing to do with mad or mpg123 (which are
used to decode MP3s)
-- 
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Luca Barbato]

On 07/31/2010 05:09 PM, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:
> On 7/31/10 4:37 AM, Hanno Böck wrote:
>> vpx for supporting googles vp8 codec used in webm.

No, vpx is for using libvpx.

>> At the moment this is only mplayer and ffmpeg, but it's pretty obvious that 
>> apps supporting vp8 will start popping up everywhere (currently working on 
>> arista ebuild which will support it).

> Just verifying: does the vpx USE flag in ffmpeg control the support for
> encoding vp8, decoding it, or both? How should www-client/chromium
> depend on ffmpeg to make sure it will support vp8?

it does trigger the use of libvpx, curreng ffvp8 (decoder) is faster
than libvpx, libvpx is used for the encoding side for now.

>> Though we might discuss if vpx is really a good name or it shouldn't be vp8.
> 
> It might also be webm. Not sure what's more intuitive for people. Also,
> nteresting question would be whether to enable the flag by default an in
> which profiles (desktop?).

vpx -> you use libvpx

vp8 -> you want vp8

as for decoding ffmpeg is already a provider so application using it
won't need additional useflag IMHO

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

Re: [gentoo-dev] New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Steve Dibb]

On 07/31/2010 05:37 AM, Hanno Böck wrote:
> vpx for supporting googles vp8 codec used in webm.
>
> At the moment this is only mplayer and ffmpeg, but it's pretty obvious that
> apps supporting vp8 will start popping up everywhere (currently working on
> arista ebuild which will support it).
>
> Though we might discuss if vpx is really a good name or it shouldn't be vp8.
>

Depends on the libraries / codecs being used.  In this case, the library 
is libvpx.  The codec is VP8.

ffmpeg already has native support for playback of VP8, so we'll probably 
be splitting the use flags into two parts: vp8 and and libvpx.

I would say, for most ebuilds, just use vp8 use flag.  That will be 
obvious what it means.

For webm support, add a use flag just for that.  WebM is a *combination* 
of VP8 + Vorbis.  Strictly speaking though, it's still just Matroska, so 
support for it will probably be native anyway in most stuff.

Steve

[gentoo-dev] Re: New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Peter Hjalmarsson]

lör 2010-07-31 klockan 13:37 +0200 skrev Hanno Böck:
> vpx for supporting googles vp8 codec used in webm.
> 
> At the moment this is only mplayer and ffmpeg, but it's pretty obvious that 
> apps supporting vp8 will start popping up everywhere (currently working on 
> arista ebuild which will support it).
> 
> Though we might discuss if vpx is really a good name or it shouldn't be vp8.
> 

This feels like the standard discussion about a use flag for function
versus a use flag for dependencies.

Myself I think this should follow the most commonly for ssl found
nameing convention which is that:

USE="ssl" provides ssl support in all packages. If a package has
optional ssl-support they should have this flag.

USE="gnutls openssl nss ..." finetunes which implementation of ssl to
use. They should never exist without USE="ssl" unless they package has
unconditional ssl support.


Of course there are people who think otherwise even for ssl/tls, and so
you cannot be sure that you have ssl/tls support even if you have
USE="ssl".
For example if you cannot connect with vnc using tls to your qemu
virtual machine then you have to look up that ebuild to see that tls is
only enabled if you have USE="gnutls". I think that is suboptimal and
confusing for the user.


So I think a USE="vp8" or USE="webm" (probably the first) to enable
decoding, and USE="vpx" should be used to fine tune what implementation
to use. Having USE="vp8" (no USE="vpx" specified) in make.conf should
give you support for vp8 in all packages and the implementation should
be the maintainers preference for that package.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: New global use flag: vpx or vp8

[Philipp Riegger]

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:11:32 +0200
Peter Hjalmarsson <xake@rymdraket.net> wrote:

> So I think a USE="vp8" or USE="webm" (probably the first) to enable
> decoding, and USE="vpx" should be used to fine tune what
> implementation to use. Having USE="vp8" (no USE="vpx" specified) in
> make.conf should give you support for vp8 in all packages and the
> implementation should be the maintainers preference for that package.

+1

Philipp