From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1O0ywg-0005mT-H1 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:19:34 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C5F3FE0951; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:19:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ew0-f227.google.com (mail-ew0-f227.google.com [209.85.219.227]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DCAE0807 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:19:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so1665681ewy.10 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 08:19:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=0nQP1HRv4ofu7t6AT29hntZ1+9BinznJ3EzJyEP6foU=; b=cK62V/jNxb97dAxzuxmjsgSyRXHtuiyR4+hRn5GB3k759cXPv/dInwa0u7gKKKiE63 Gbu9FHZZjMz0ejiIe6HzdTYkVYj2eTuH/ClUT+TSWLaKjJotAposGauWRTdzv1B6kshO 1izLrRoQIt5TOPgtoMBIg7qctFUt7y4YP0Ksg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; b=ZIkWLDc2N1BrxgsDCLyI5l+CsP890Gr1W3LVB1FFVIS8TJaYM8KqocAbDnzPjz4Zfz ThDD+IWWfU2zplwmmt1gpRCBpGaXwZAKrGS0JA2mCizwZjRfdKDlN1Do+WmeWpUFNvwE pXDbaTUVDypvy3yRoMDD93RWZuFAFoFZC2xIM= Received: by 10.213.40.210 with SMTP id l18mr1393293ebe.70.1270999161236; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 08:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Caemlyn.Fullrate (0110ds1-abc.0.fullrate.dk [90.185.49.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 14sm2203396ewy.2.2010.04.11.08.19.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 11 Apr 2010 08:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 17:17:17 +0200 From: Zeerak Mustafa Waseem To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Policy regarding the inactive members Message-ID: <20100411151705.GB2298@Caemlyn.Fullrate> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <201004111616.41414.hwoarang@gentoo.org> <4BC1D709.2020503@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BC1D709.2020503@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Archives-Salt: 95309517-582c-40bd-8567-9f8f11497a1d X-Archives-Hash: 7ddc7cba6f963154e78093695f2ccc16 --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 04:04:57PM +0200, Matti Bickel wrote: > /me puts on his asbestos underwear >=20 > Markos Chandras wrote: > > So the attendance to council meetings is enough to prove that a member= is=20 > > active? 0_o >=20 > Yes. Anything else is just too hard to measure, imo. If you notice a > council member acting w/o knowing what the heck is going on, then vote > him down next election. >=20 > > place on the mailing list. Because I really doubt that *all* council me= mbers=20 > > are reading the mailing list in daily basis so they get to know everyth= ing=20 > > that is going on to Gentoo. >=20 > This is impossible. Council should follow -council and debate points > pushed onto their agenda via -dev. At least that's my understanding. But isn't it the councils purpose to lead gentoo? I agree it's damn hard to= measure. A thing that could be done is to appoint one person to speak on b= ehalf of the council and to follow -dev. The entire Python-3 stabilization = could have used a figure to say that it was to be stabilized or not and sta= te why and what should (and would) be done to prevent the same situation in= the future. Imo Gentoo sorely needs a leader. Someone to bring all of thes= e various bodies of gentoo to work together. > > 2) Fails to accomplish his role by supervising the Gentoo projects. >=20 > This isn't even in their domain. I would complain *loud* about any > council member interfering with projects unless it's an inter-project > issue. The council is meant for arbitration and vision, not for > commanding devs. > Well, the way I understand it, the council is elected to lead Gentoo. By le= ading they have to either delegate to someone to supervise Gentoo projects = or do it themselves. It isn't supervision in a "Why is developer X not doing anything" but rathe= r as "This project hasn't moved forward for X months, let's get in touch an= d hear what's going on and what can be done about and whether or not anythi= ng should be done". Gentoo consists of the projects it works on (and has worked on), leading Ge= ntoo must also mean leading the projects. =20 > Rather than relying on the council for whatever "leadership" you want, > please just DO something that scratches YOUR itch. I'm aware our current > technical/social infrastructure is not up to par on handling large scale > contributions by hundreds of users/non-devs. I realize there's this > impression that every time you have an idea there's a mob of people > stoning your idea to death. I have however observed that the more mature > (read: the more implemented code) your idea is, the smaller the stones. > And if your idea is good enough, others might use their stones for > building instead of mud-slinging. >=20 But if the council is elected to lead Gentoo, then they are the ones to loo= k at when there is a seeming lack of leadership. I do agree that doing some= thing yourself will always be the first step, but there is no way every dev= eloper can keep track of everything that's going on. It seems to me that th= e need for Gentoo at the moment is, someone who can keep track of the ongoi= ngs of Gentoo and make the necessary decisions to further this distribution= =2E A council is a very good idea, but it is a slowly moving process and th= ere needs to be an intermediate person that can do the day to day decisions= , and this person would of course take the most important issues (along wit= h anything the individual developers think should be taken care of) to the = council for the council to vote on. I utterly fail to see why there should be any rock throwing. It should not = be hard to voice your concerns about an idea without coming off as hostile.= Rather than seeing a problem with the idea, one should look for solutions.= And on that note I fail to see why flaming occurs, this is a workplace and= you don't get into arguments (heated debates yes but not arguments) with y= our other employers, do you? And even if it is a volountary workplace and i= t's on the internet, the same courtesy should be shown. I know all of you a= lready know this, but if there's something you think might not be understoo= d in the manner you intend in real life, then it definately won't be unders= tood in the manner you intend on the internet. And there's something good about that this is on the internet. If you feel = like you're starting to get agitated, take a breather, no one will know any= better, other than (hopefully) your responce will be that much more relaxe= d. As an endnote I should say that I know you're all doing your best here, so = keep it up! --=20 Zeerak Waseem --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLwef5AAoJEBS1NNgpgWuWn00IAJ5SJqtHAlIjkkbrep/it01Q FG8OIhLXvAvZBUydR38IkTv6KhtdcIkV3ehaETG1py/Flyx/yGzcpmD7LpxM32r1 1cQS/zL3gMsLhEfa0eZcDCyxS7P8lnbUk5s/zmL8Dx9ojqAKx+KaE/icoE4Xkt89 uViG6Y89d3prlzMGcJOvfersVgJaxAcPazOPFP5FZUM9SO6VjG19P7g5a+fFQOtA nLNi7PddS11yBhoTg3xgvPp//E4D0q93GJh4mVJhmlDc+E18z0qP/Vs6yFvZipnD hW+sqNLOeH2jeUHmkYdped07EQT/boW4lx0KZCMVQ2rtz2DqMBmNvZRvz67ULVM= =PstP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NKoe5XOeduwbEQHU--