[gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Markos Chandras]

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On Saturday 10 April 2010 16:53:48 Petteri Räty wrote:
> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
> 
> Regards,
> Petteri
That's not a good reaction from your side. Independent projects can handle the 
incoming manpower themselves. 

The whole point behind the web page redevelopment is that none is showing to 
users or developers a clear way to get involved with it. Who is resposible for 
the webpage? How can somebody get involved? etc. I can't event answer these 
questions myself being a developer for more than a year. 
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Vincent-Xavier JUMEL]

Le samedi 10 avril 2010 15:53:48, Petteri Räty a écrit :
> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
> 
Since I'm quite new to this list, I'll start by a quick presentation.

I'm a french math teacher who loves computer science and Free Software. I've 
discovered Gentoo circa 2004 at school and since then it perfectly matches my 
needs and way of thinking.

I'm writing some personal ebuilds that I've never took time to clean up and 
upload to sunrise since it works for me. You may find a sympa ebuild at my 
personal repo[1]

I'm not sure I've enough time to involve myself as a Gentoo developer (even if 
a maintain my own sympa ebuild and other) but I want to help Gentoo project.

I could easily donate some time, but I don't know where to begin, so I'm glad 
of your offer to direct me to something useful.

Cheers

[1] : http://redmine.thetys-retz.net/projects/overlay

P.S. Sorry, this web page is still in French as my signature
-- 
Rejoignez les 5462 adhérents de l'April <http://www.april.org/adherer>
Toile-Libre <http://toile-libre.org>, hébergement libre à prix libre
+33 (0) 148 295 997 <http://blog.thetys-retz.net/>
GPG Id: EBEC C39A DAAE F766 9785  EF23 E76F 467D 2E14 CE70

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/10/2010 05:00 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Saturday 10 April 2010 16:53:48 Petteri Räty wrote:
>> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
>> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
>> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
>> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
>> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
>> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
>> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
>> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Petteri
> That's not a good reaction from your side. Independent projects can handle the 
> incoming manpower themselves. 
> 

There's a lot of small tedious tasks that won't get done without
something like this. I see remarks about our documentation being
scattered. Please suggest a better way to solve that then.

> The whole point behind the web page redevelopment is that none is showing to 
> users or developers a clear way to get involved with it. Who is resposible for 
> the webpage? How can somebody get involved? etc. I can't event answer these 
> questions myself being a developer for more than a year. 

I thought I was offering to help people to get involved.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Ben de Groot]

On 10 April 2010 15:53, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole

I am willing to follow real leaders, who inspire and lead by example,
in the words of Ann Marie E. McSwain, Assistant Professor at Lincoln
University, “leadership is about capacity: the capacity of leaders to
listen and observe, to use their expertise as a starting point to
encourage dialogue between all levels of decision-making, to establish
processes and transparency in decision-making, to articulate their own
values and visions clearly but not impose them. Leadership is about
setting and not just reacting to agendas, identifying problems, and
initiating change that makes for substantial improvement rather than
managing change.” (quoted from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership)

You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.

No cheers this time,
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/10/2010 05:38 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 10 April 2010 15:53, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
>> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
>> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
>> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole
> 
> I am willing to follow real leaders, who inspire and lead by example,
> in the words of Ann Marie E. McSwain, Assistant Professor at Lincoln
> University, “leadership is about capacity: the capacity of leaders to
> listen and observe, to use their expertise as a starting point to
> encourage dialogue between all levels of decision-making, to establish
> processes and transparency in decision-making, to articulate their own
> values and visions clearly but not impose them. Leadership is about
> setting and not just reacting to agendas, identifying problems, and
> initiating change that makes for substantial improvement rather than
> managing change.” (quoted from
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership)
> 
> You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.
> 
> No cheers this time,

We can change the word to managed then. In Finnish there is only one
word for both btw.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Denis Dupeyron]

Ben,

Petteri was proposing an idea. He is being creative and is trying to
help. The only way of knowing if his idea is good is to discuss it and
later try it if people are interested.

You, on the other hand, have lately been increasingly critical (which
is good) but not constructively. You obviously have a lot of energy
but at no point have you offered your contribution. You haven't
offered to help the teams you've been criticizing and you haven't
proposed any real idea (website redesign, recruiters). Also you're
criticizing without knowing what is happening when the information is
publicly available (you're asking for a discussion on the metadata
idea and it was a topic last month, the devrel issue is being tackled
and it started before your rant).

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I am willing to follow real leaders

Willing to follow? Wow, that's ballsy. Now I understand why you needed
to tell the world about it.

> who inspire and lead by example,

There are lots of good role models to follow in Gentoo. All those who
work their ass off trying to make this distribution better, and use
the mailing lists as a tool to share ideas but not for immature
political rantings.

> You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.
>
> No cheers this time,

And you've shown a striking lack of respect for somebody who's been so
dedicated to Gentoo for more time than you've been a developer, and
without whom you wouldn't even be a developer as he was your
recruiter. This is so wrong.

Credibility is among these things which take a long and hard work to
build up and can completely blow up at any time. Don't waste yours.

Denis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Ben de Groot]

On 10 April 2010 21:27, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> Petteri was proposing an idea. He is being creative

You call that creative? It seems you don't know what the word means.

> You, on the other hand, have lately been increasingly critical (which
> is good) but not constructively. You obviously have a lot of energy
> but at no point have you offered your contribution. You haven't
> offered to help the teams you've been criticizing and you haven't
> proposed any real idea (website redesign, recruiters).

I guess I was hallucinating that I started the wiki project, which has
been a popular request for as long as I can remember. I guess I
imagined I worked together with Markos to start the proxy-maintainer
project to improve visibility of that option to contribute. And I must
have been dreaming that I sent a mail about forming a team to review
and renew the recruitment process and curriculum. I must be mistaken
in thinking I have proposed to centralize all developer documentation
into one place. Oh, and forgive me for not publicly announcing that I
sent a mail to the dormant webteam about joining and offering my help.
And asking for leadership on issues that affect Gentoo on a wider
scale is not constructive?

Or maybe you are wrong about those things. Maybe you are not noticing
my contributions?

> Also you're
> criticizing without knowing what is happening when the information is
> publicly available (you're asking for a discussion on the metadata
> idea and it was a topic last month,

It is exactly because I know what council decided about the metadata
idea that I spoke up and asked for a reconsideration, giving some (in
my eyes) good arguments as to why you should. But I guess your reading
comprehension isn't that stellar either.

> the devrel issue is being tackled and it started before your rant).

To my knowledge there was no public announcement about that, other
than that we have another lead now.

> Credibility is among these things which take a long and hard work to
> build up and can completely blow up at any time.

Indeed. And you have now completely blown yours.

I am still hoping for a better Gentoo and volunteering to make that
happen. I hope you do too. So step up to the task and be a real
leader, which is what you were elected to do. Or, if you are unable or
unwilling to do so, step down and make room for somebody else who is
more qualified for the job.

-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/10/2010 11:17 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 10 April 2010 21:27, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>> Petteri was proposing an idea. He is being creative
> 
> You call that creative? It seems you don't know what the word means.
> 

You don't have to take any part in the experiment but will you benefit
anything by posting a negatively toned comment to this thread?

> 
> I guess I was hallucinating that I started the wiki project, which has
> been a popular request for as long as I can remember. I guess I
> imagined I worked together with Markos to start the proxy-maintainer
> project to improve visibility of that option to contribute. And I must
> have been dreaming that I sent a mail about forming a team to review
> and renew the recruitment process and curriculum. I must be mistaken
> in thinking I have proposed to centralize all developer documentation
> into one place. Oh, and forgive me for not publicly announcing that I
> sent a mail to the dormant webteam about joining and offering my help.
> And asking for leadership on issues that affect Gentoo on a wider
> scale is not constructive?
> 

Yes all valuable contributions and hopefully you keep on that road.

> 
> To my knowledge there was no public announcement about that, other
> than that we have another lead now.
> 

Because there's not much to announce. You expect us to announce that are
trying to be effective now? I don't think we tried to be inefficient
earlier. The only thing changed visible to outside is lining our policy
to agree with GLEP 48. It's the job of the lead to make sure the project
does it's work as it's supposed to.

Regards,
Petteri



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Steve Rosiak]

right.

Am Samstag, 10. April 2010 16:38:13 schrieb Ben de Groot:
> On 10 April 2010 15:53, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> > action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> > as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> > whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole
> 
> I am willing to follow real leaders, who inspire and lead by example,
> in the words of Ann Marie E. McSwain, Assistant Professor at Lincoln
> University, “leadership is about capacity: the capacity of leaders to
> listen and observe, to use their expertise as a starting point to
> encourage dialogue between all levels of decision-making, to establish
> processes and transparency in decision-making, to articulate their own
> values and visions clearly but not impose them. Leadership is about
> setting and not just reacting to agendas, identifying problems, and
> initiating change that makes for substantial improvement rather than
> managing change.” (quoted from
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership)
> 
> You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.
> 
> No cheers this time,
> 

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Ben de Groot]

On 10 April 2010 22:56, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I guess I was hallucinating that I started the wiki project, which has
>> been a popular request for as long as I can remember. I guess I
>> imagined I worked together with Markos to start the proxy-maintainer
>> project to improve visibility of that option to contribute. And I must
>> have been dreaming that I sent a mail about forming a team to review
>> and renew the recruitment process and curriculum. I must be mistaken
>> in thinking I have proposed to centralize all developer documentation
>> into one place. Oh, and forgive me for not publicly announcing that I
>> sent a mail to the dormant webteam about joining and offering my help.
>> And asking for leadership on issues that affect Gentoo on a wider
>> scale is not constructive?
>>
>
> Yes all valuable contributions and hopefully you keep on that road.

Not if you think it is okay for Calchan to insult me the way he did.


-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/10/2010 04:53 PM, Petteri Räty wrote:
> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
> 
> Regards,
> Petteri
> 

There seems to be some confusion what this is about so maybe the
attached log will clear things.

Regards,
Petteri

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21:04 <+tanderson> Betelgeuse: I may have missed any messages from you, but do you have any work re your -dev thread?
21:06 <@Betelgeuse> tanderson: how much work do you want?
21:07 <+tanderson> hm, a couple hours-worth to start off with.
21:08 <@Betelgeuse> tanderson: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=2&chap=1 go through by parts and change things to link to devmanual after checking all info is on the 
                    linked page
21:09 <@Betelgeuse> tanderson: basically make sure we only document things once
21:09 <+tanderson> so, eliminate that page over time by putting things in devmanual?
21:10 <@Betelgeuse> tanderson: Yeah that page in the long term doesn't have a future
21:10 <@Betelgeuse> tanderson: once we have info only once it's easy to see what needs to be written to devmanual
21:10 <+tanderson> gotcha.
21:11 <+tanderson> I've been wanting some other work for awhile, arch work is tiring and burn-out type.
21:13 < spatz> Betelgeuse: so that's how it's gonna work, people come to you asking for tasks and you hand them out? sounds handy when I'm bored :)
21:13 <@Betelgeuse> spatz: yes that's what I proposed
21:14 < spatz> I read it differently, but it looks like fun
21:15 <@Betelgeuse> spatz: I should be able to queue up plenty :)
21:15 <+tanderson> yeah, seems so to me. I don't think it will fix all gentoo's problems. But one can't reasonably expect the council to do (all) the dirty work .
21:15 < spatz> I'll give it a shot, count me in. I have a lot of studying to do today and tomorrow, but I'll come ask for stuff tomorrow or on monday
21:15 <@Betelgeuse> tanderson: yeah but slow progress will eventually get us there in many things
21:16 <@Betelgeuse> better than just talking that we need to do something and not doing anything
21:16 <@Betelgeuse> spatz: how did you read it then?
21:16 <@Betelgeuse> spatz: I can post a follow up to avoid confusion
21:17 <@Betelgeuse> Maybe I should just post the logs from here.
21:17 < spatz> basically the post seemed negative, and sounded like you're searching for people to be your bitches :p

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/11/2010 12:18 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 10 April 2010 22:56, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> I guess I was hallucinating that I started the wiki project, which has
>>> been a popular request for as long as I can remember. I guess I
>>> imagined I worked together with Markos to start the proxy-maintainer
>>> project to improve visibility of that option to contribute. And I must
>>> have been dreaming that I sent a mail about forming a team to review
>>> and renew the recruitment process and curriculum. I must be mistaken
>>> in thinking I have proposed to centralize all developer documentation
>>> into one place. Oh, and forgive me for not publicly announcing that I
>>> sent a mail to the dormant webteam about joining and offering my help.
>>> And asking for leadership on issues that affect Gentoo on a wider
>>> scale is not constructive?
>>>
>>
>> Yes all valuable contributions and hopefully you keep on that road.
> 
> Not if you think it is okay for Calchan to insult me the way he did.
> 
> 

Could he have chosen better words - yes
Were there errors in content - no
Misunderstandings - more than likely

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Ben de Groot]

On 10 April 2010 23:23, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 04/11/2010 12:18 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>> Not if you think it is okay for Calchan to insult me the way he did.
>
> Could he have chosen better words - yes
> Were there errors in content - no

How about:

> You have lately been increasingly critical but not constructively

> at no point have you offered your contribution

> You haven't offered to help

> you haven't proposed any real idea

> use the mailing lists for immature political rantings

You think those words are correct?
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/11/2010 12:37 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 10 April 2010 23:23, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On 04/11/2010 12:18 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>>> Not if you think it is okay for Calchan to insult me the way he did.
>>
>> Could he have chosen better words - yes
>> Were there errors in content - no
> 
> How about:
> 
>> You have lately been increasingly critical but not constructively
> 
>> at no point have you offered your contribution
> 
>> You haven't offered to help
> 
>> you haven't proposed any real idea
> 

As I read it he was referring to specific things like recruiters not
your contributions as a whole.

>> use the mailing lists for immature political rantings
> 

As for this I said he could have refrained from mud slinging, didn't I?

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Denis Dupeyron]

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 04/11/2010 12:37 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>> How about:
>>
>>> You have lately been increasingly critical but not constructively
>>
>>> at no point have you offered your contribution
>>
>>> You haven't offered to help
>>
>>> you haven't proposed any real idea
>>
>
> As I read it he was referring to specific things like recruiters not
> your contributions as a whole.

Exactly.

>>> use the mailing lists for immature political rantings
>>
>
> As for this I said he could have refrained from mud slinging, didn't I?

No mud slinging there but a fact. You can either ignore this kind of
behavior and let them pollute our mailing lists, or you can point at
them and say they won't be tolerated. I chose the latter.

Denis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Petteri Räty]

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On 04/11/2010 01:06 AM, Denis Dupeyron wrote:

> 
> No mud slinging there but a fact. You can either ignore this kind of
> behavior and let them pollute our mailing lists, or you can point at
> them and say they won't be tolerated. I chose the latter.
> 

I mean things like "immature political rantings" are not likely to evoke
the wanted response and it didn't happen here either.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Ben de Groot]

On 11 April 2010 00:06, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On 04/11/2010 12:37 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>>> How about:
>>>
>>>> You have lately been increasingly critical but not constructively
>>>
>>>> at no point have you offered your contribution
>>>
>>>> You haven't offered to help
>>>
>>>> you haven't proposed any real idea
>>>
>>
>> As I read it he was referring to specific things like recruiters not
>> your contributions as a whole.
>
> Exactly.

Even then it is false. As I did offer my help and make suggestions.

-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Denis Dupeyron]

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I mean things like "immature political rantings" are not likely to evoke
> the wanted response and it didn't happen here either.

I know it hurts the eyes a bit, but calling problems by their name is
part of fixing them.

Denis.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Ben de Groot]

On 11 April 2010 00:54, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I mean things like "immature political rantings" are not likely to evoke
>> the wanted response and it didn't happen here either.
>
> I know it hurts the eyes a bit, but calling problems by their name is
> part of fixing them.

Except when someone else does it, then calling the problem of lack of
leadership suddenly becomes "immature political ranting". Nice try.

-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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Hash: SHA1

Allo.

On 10-04-2010 14:09, Vincent-Xavier JUMEL wrote:
> Le samedi 10 avril 2010 15:53:48, Petteri Räty a écrit :
>> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
>> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
>> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
>> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
>> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
>> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
>> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
>> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
>>
> Since I'm quite new to this list, I'll start by a quick presentation.
> 
> I'm a french math teacher who loves computer science and Free Software. I've 
> discovered Gentoo circa 2004 at school and since then it perfectly matches my 
> needs and way of thinking.
> 
> I'm writing some personal ebuilds that I've never took time to clean up and 
> upload to sunrise since it works for me. You may find a sympa ebuild at my 
> personal repo[1]
> 
> I'm not sure I've enough time to involve myself as a Gentoo developer (even if 
> a maintain my own sympa ebuild and other) but I want to help Gentoo project.
> 
> I could easily donate some time, but I don't know where to begin, so I'm glad 
> of your offer to direct me to something useful.

I'm sending you an email directly (and cc'ing Recruiters and User
Relations) as I want to try to get some accomplishment from all the buzz
in our mailing lists.

In case you want to know more about the recruitment process, I'm posting
below our (recruiters) default reply to such inquiries.

If you suspect or conclude that you don't have the time and or
motivation to become a Gentoo Developer, I'd still like very much to see
how we can help you contribute to Gentoo in a way that his rewarding to
you and that will be of help to the whole community.

To that effect, are there any particular areas in Gentoo that you would
like to contribute to or do you have particular skills that you think
could be of use to Gentoo? What communication channels are you willing
and or capable to use? I'll do my best to try find the relevant teams on
Gentoo and get you in touch with their developers.

> Cheers
> 
> [1] : http://redmine.thetys-retz.net/projects/overlay
> 
> P.S. Sorry, this web page is still in French as my signature

No problem. I can read French and we do have some French speaking
developers. I will try to save you from my "murdering" of the language
though ;-) and will reply in English or let one of the others reply in
French.

Please feel free to email me directly, poke me on the Freenode or OFTC
IRC networks (my nick is jmbsvicetto) as well as emailing the recruiters
or userrel alias for any further requests, questions or comments. We'd
also like to hear any suggestions you may have.


- ------------ Recruiters default email ------------

We are very actively looking for interested people. You can start
contributing right now if you want. Two good ways to start are
proposing solutions for bugs [1] and contributing to an overlay [2]
like Sunrise for example [3]. There is more information on how to
get involved with overlay development at [4]. You may also want to
have a look at the staffing needs page [5].

If you have written ebuilds, feel free to submit them to bugzilla
[1] or sunrise [3]. This way we can all see them and help you make
them better. Also, you never know, some developer may like what you
did and commit it to the main tree. Note that we're all very busy so
we may not react to your bugs, but that should not prevent you from
filing them. Bugzilla is also used for documenting work that needs to
be done and following up on it, so if the bugs sit there even if
nobody reacts it's already useful.

You will need to read the Gentoo Documentation Resources [6], and more
specifically the Gentoo Developer Handbook [7] and the Gentoo
Development Guide [8].

Another way to help, especially for non-technical projects, is to
contact people directly [9]. Be aware that they can be away though, so
be patient, try others on the same project, and finally get back to us
in case you fail to reach anybody. You may also want to look at what
mailing lists are of interest to you [10] and browse through the
archives [11] to learn what is going on.

Training new developers takes a lot of time and effort so we don't
recruit as much as we would like and need. Before you can enter the
recruiting process though, you'll need to show what you can do. We do
this for many reasons but mainly because it shows your commitment to
Gentoo (since training takes so much time we favor people who we know
will stay), it shows what your interests are (you'll need to find a
mentor with the same interests to start your training) and it tells us
how much and what kind of training you need.

So, start filing and more importantly fixing bugs, submit ebuilds, be
active on our irc channels and mailing lists, and at some point you'll
get noticed. When a developer notices you, (s)he may ask you to join
an arch testing team, an herd or offer to mentor you. When you think
your work is significant enough and you find out that nobody notices
you when they should be, feel free to contact us again and we'll try
and arrange the situation.

Are there any particular areas that interest you? Have you tried to
join any project's irc channels[12]? Sometimes the best way to get
a mentor is through direct contact with devs - be it through
bugzilla, mls or irc.

Do not hesitate to contact recruiters in the future in case you need
more information.

 [1] - http://bugs.gentoo.org/
 [2] - http://overlays.gentoo.org/
 [3] - http://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/sunrise/
 [4] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/overlays/userguide.xml#doc_chap3
 [5] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing-needs/
 [6] - http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml?catid=gentoodev
 [7] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml
 [8] - http://devmanual.gentoo.org/
 [9] - http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/index.xml?showlevel=2
[10] - http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml
[11] - http://archives.gentoo.org/
[12] - http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/irc.xml


- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Sebastian Pipping]

On 04/11/10 00:54, Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> I know it hurts the eyes a bit, but calling problems by their name is
> part of fixing them.

What about difference in tone?  You can transfer content X in very
different tones and sill not hide anything.  It's hard, but it's possible.



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Richard Freeman]

On 04/10/2010 07:44 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 11 April 2010 00:54, Denis Dupeyron<calchan@gentoo.org>  wrote:
>> I know it hurts the eyes a bit, but calling problems by their name is
>> part of fixing them.
>
> Except when someone else does it, then calling the problem of lack of
> leadership suddenly becomes "immature political ranting". Nice try.
>

You know, leadership can be as much about NOT replying to an email as 
replying to one...  :)

You don't need to be elected to the council to be a leader.  I'd say 
that with very few exceptions those who have been on the council were 
elected because a majority of devs recognize that they have been leaders.

I can certainly say that they have put in a lot more time than most 
reading this list, and it really isn't anybody's place to lecture them 
on being leaders as a result.  If somebody really thinks they have 
constructive advice then make it constructive, or at least send it in 
private to council@g.o.

If there is ANYBODY here who actually intends to lift a finger to 
actually do work to rectify these problems, by all means contact the 
appropriate project lead or the council or something and ask how to 
pitch in and help.  Based on Patteri's post it sounds like you can feel 
free to ping him on irc/email if you're looking for something to do.

And let's try to remember that we're all in it together - infighting 
isn't going to inspire more people to join the cause...

Rich

Re: [gentoo-dev] Who is willing to be lead?

[Roy Bamford]

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On 2010.04.10 15:00, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Saturday 10 April 2010 16:53:48 Petteri Räty wrote:
> > As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> > action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer 
> to
> act
> > as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time
> to
> > whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page
> redesign.
> > Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you
> stuff to
> > work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece
> of
> > documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
> > benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the
> details.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Petteri
> That's not a good reaction from your side. Independent projects can
> handle the 
> incoming manpower themselves. 
> 
[snip]
> -- 
> Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
> Gentoo Linux Developer
> Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
> 

There are two valuable non conflicting ideas here.  The second one is 
more obvious, so I'll address that first an show how it fits with the 
other.
 
"Independent projects"  Gentoo is an assemblage of independent projects 
all pretty much doing their own thing ... the council exists to 
"handle global issues" [glep39]
This implies that the council works on things brought to its 
attention, further its purpose is not to 'lead' (whatever that might 
mean), rather its the glue that holds the independent projects 
together when they can't resolve things for themselves.

The problem with this structure is that the independent projects have 
gaps/overlaps between them. Overlaps normally indicate wasted effort, 
gaps indicate something missing that does not fit into the existing 
projects (at least, as far as the projects are concerned).  The result 
is that the gaps are not addressed.

Petteri, writes "I offer to take action".  That's an offer from an 
individual Gentoo developer, not on behalf of the council. It doesn't 
matter how Petteri came to form his view that a lot of small tasks can 
make Gentoo better for being organised. It need not encroach on the 
independent projects at all.

Gentoo has got to the social complexity now that it needs some middle 
management. The council is not permitted to provide that and Petteri 
has offered to try.

Its really no different to putting up a project page and starting a new 
project.

This could be a new way to get non-devs involved too. Give them a small 
well defined package of work to contribute ... 

I see it in a positive light but I don't think I can offer any time at 
the moment.

-- 
Regards,

Roy Bamford
(Neddyseagoon) a member of
gentoo-ops
forum-mods
trustees


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