From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NyZOT-0007ZN-AD for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 23:38:17 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D20BEE08F9; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 23:38:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ew0-f227.google.com (mail-ew0-f227.google.com [209.85.219.227]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F196CE084A for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2010 23:37:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so948845ewy.10 for ; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:37:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=wgS/eD34HbJDPqOYlS0NeJGEqhd+XV6W9LLCLtQS36g=; b=JMmt48YLkYxjkw4+1fZF1FibsCT0WMSQ985hC2ogs6o3a8IeSlL3QWczJ78HZjioEi oZjWBneicU3Q9akNkwVC6lhAdyOtsVNmLugn78czPpMK35WI1dn0vHH7QquuprWGdsiS f7Y4oY2oEMnzIDzQaN0q0bSCDKOVT5EdUkGxM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; b=HNVrnTnYxD+aWvpi2HOeDMhLZ/OKfx0E+1N1VvmJSCmA40H2M907MYLaGLClQjlqRT H2CnG7uSDXzZEVZFvd2VJ88skmhbPXsL5RhlPMUqZT+fQPvCsV0Td6PHgfAiGPyvVjjt KpnCRTLO6SfXH+cyiFplvSpwSsEC8wKZ5i29c= Received: by 10.213.63.75 with SMTP id a11mr1055016ebi.9.1270424276303; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Caemlyn.Fullrate (0110ds1-abc.0.fullrate.dk [90.185.49.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 16sm6058726ewy.3.2010.04.04.16.37.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 03:36:02 +0200 From: Zeerak Mustafa Waseem To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [Gentoo Phoenix] an official Gentoo wiki Message-ID: <20100405013559.GD2156@Caemlyn.Fullrate> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <4BB7D11F.7060207@gentoo.org> <20100404003152.4b2012da@angelstorm> <4BB8A349.4070006@allenjb.me.uk> <4BB8AC8F.4010708@allenjb.me.uk> <20100404224523.GB2156@Caemlyn.Fullrate> <4BB910D9.8050200@allenjb.me.uk> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Qrgsu6vtpU/OV/zm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BB910D9.8050200@allenjb.me.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Archives-Salt: 352f7731-bf9f-412a-b8d9-704da12daff6 X-Archives-Hash: 4f6a1c4796de3035ad8bba8e2157a1a3 --Qrgsu6vtpU/OV/zm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 04, 2010 at 11:21:13PM +0100, AllenJB wrote: > The way I see it, the "official" wiki has to earn my respect as a > project. The unofficial wiki already has already been through this > process. It's no different whether I'm trying a new piece of software or > a new distro. > > It's not the URL that bothers me. I will, as I have said, quite happily > move the articles I've written over, relicensing what I can if > necessary, if/when I believe that the community would benefit. > > My problem is with the attitude of "let's start the official wiki by > taking the content of the unofficial wiki, regardless of the wishes of > the active contributors of those articles". >=20 Ah yeah, I should have been more specific with what I meant. What I wanted = to ask (but looking back on my mail, not what I did ask) is, what is to sto= p the community at the unofficial wiki to migrate to the new wiki early in = the project? I don't know what you require for the new wiki to be able to gain your resp= ect, but I imagine (wild guessing based on what it would take for it to gai= n my respect) that one thing is that it has quality articles, I also assume= that another is activity. But in that regard, what you and the rest of the= community have brought to gentoo-wiki would be a wonderful place to start = for the official wiki. I don't mean your articles, well your articles as well but not necessarily = the article, I primarily mean a community well adjusted to working with a g= entoo-specific wiki. You guys have provided some good articles and having y= our contribution (in form of willingness to work with the new wiki) would b= e a great asset, in my opinion anyway.=20 =20 I can understand that you have a problem with it if the first step is takin= g your work, but what if you were one of the first steps. I mean a successf= ul wiki would be a wiki with an active usergroup (the unofficial one has th= at), good accurate articles (the unofficial wiki has that as well), and a d= ecent rate of visitors (the articles are useful and relevant) and again, th= e unofficial wiki has that. You basically have what is necessary for gentoo= to grow in this aspect. So the question ends up being, why wait for someon= e else to prove to you what you can prove to others? (And indeed have prove= n to others.) If your requirements for the official wiki to gain your respe= ct are the same as mine, then why not help make sure that it meets those re= quirements? > Yes, the license may allow you to do this, and legally you might be able > to do so under the license. But the legal license and ethics/morals > involved in such action are different things. >=20 > As I see it, the purpose of licensing my articles under an open license > is to allow them to be contributed to and read without issues in the > eventuality that the current wiki is lost for any reason (tho this is > highly unlikely to happen again in the forseeable future as I and others > now actively backup the content of the wiki, and the server maintainer > has much better full backups in place) or the event that I am "hit by a > bus". >=20 But in the end you have no control over who copies it. I mean hell, I could= start a blog/wiki/whatever else and copy the contents of the unofficial wi= ki over. And in the end you can't (and by my estimate shouldn't) complain a= s you knew the terms when you entered, and if not you could stop any time y= ou realized the terms. Whether or not they're contributed to another place = than where you put them up, is what you agreed to. I don't see any moral or ethical issues in this. I can understand why it mi= ght upset you, but in the end when you release something under a license th= at allows copying and editing it must be a situation you're prepared for. I= do however see why you mgiht find it distasteful. >=20 > If those who wish to run an official wiki can see no sensible starting > point other than copying the content of the unofficial wiki, then I > would bring into question what the point of an official wiki would be, > and why should the Gentoo developers psend time and resources on > duplicating the efforts of the community when there is a huge long list > of other things they could do that would provide services to the > community that are not already catered for. >=20 > AllenJB >=20 +1 I completely agree with you, there is one reason as I can see it though.= As it is at the moment there isn't a recommendation to help out with the u= nofficial wiki, if it became (part of) the official wiki such a recommendat= ion would be put forth (I imagine). But then, a recommendation could be put= forth now :-) But other than that, I completely agree with you. --=20 Zeerak Waseem --Qrgsu6vtpU/OV/zm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLuT5/AAoJEBS1NNgpgWuWBjsH/jAnJhJJ8WWqgBiseVx51GTT 5v/+r91a4a/NpcMv4ndbp2QkORmgSxAuUv8RaS4AauJMiHfnes0/ToGQM41wP3aj j+EIVC2ktjnH1E2HRsWkowNTDFWjUphBLWnL72F8QV4/P9hZrBKQzdQQquZt5VT9 MlmOvyugSfSmfwQL0kAvTwzU13NxGOt6PQUK/6twVFTDljzksJFfCfOvogPFegW0 a8Naf+33Bboo+AVssFxKFXxXh15U04YAKLr5nbQK5Sy34cc0EkSA2FxTK+d9LjMy +t+baJtC4XW/bH3n/5jNh5+ITaF6Lwx1W2vhmx0Y7UgRXCV7mVOB+U9AubdQLl4= =Pv6F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Qrgsu6vtpU/OV/zm--