From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NxIpe-0000JG-76 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:45:06 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6CC39E0B80; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:45:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com (mail-bw0-f219.google.com [209.85.218.219]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7204E0B68 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:44:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so531045bwz.26 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:44:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type; bh=7DCPYIHIm2SQxNOK1W9XxU7qIGDZFG0DcwZBZ1ersN0=; b=OkPB5KcSTn1fuxP+dFCfi4MKn9WRuP5WQ5h6w/oTmJd4JKQbqlhwlYZuN7GN68Jkvj ryPcxm3jzDEmwCYQISiSSsDD7/JTnrnu4i+R8WA2iEzUhHIIZjnkSgaFWpodtQsQeM2c bDEW/pYkKTFMrGGxBSBdUSgEsEbKphHW3Q7yo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; b=a+YVepS0ev3sbnGIqXtplTwvbwyClZHEMZrCgEZDfmGauJlzvjRswWMHs1blJJuDvK atZdvK6GPrtTFfTA2XypNbDH9mvWv35AbGlXj8SOz3SSu7rsPw5EJhp3GVHoQ4AsmDeO VoJxjsasTjZPvLbbHF52JXqwFXYlCkPQgufjs= Received: by 10.204.84.83 with SMTP id i19mr1210054bkl.175.1270122298040; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowcone ([92.24.222.23]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s17sm66503808bkd.22.2010.04.01.04.44.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:44:52 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] pkg_pretend USE validation and VALID_USE alternative Message-ID: <20100401124452.6600c0c8@snowcone> In-Reply-To: <20100401111827.GM11663@hrair> References: <20100331092035.GA11663@hrair> <20100331174925.GA16267@faith> <20100331194626.GG11663@hrair> <20100331205628.368fb02c@snowmobile> <20100401073109.GI11663@hrair> <20100401084102.2560f3a3@snowmobile> <20100401075608.GJ11663@hrair> <20100401114907.5ab3fe67@snowmobile> <20100401111827.GM11663@hrair> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.5 (GTK+ 2.18.7; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/Hiixm9g=oiFMHN0sqHKY0c4"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: edbe20e8-b944-4a22-b19f-030c134b4524 X-Archives-Hash: e69352c1882719ecc5d7069e4c5d5d36 --Sig_/Hiixm9g=oiFMHN0sqHKY0c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 04:18:27 -0700 Brian Harring wrote: > Summarizing ciaran's claim to end this nonsense- >=20 > VALID_USE isn't useful because use cycle breaking can't be done=20 > according to strictures he desires, as such VALID_USE is pointless=20 > because pkg_pretend can cover it. >=20 > It's a bit brief and likely left out an insult or two, but it's to=20 > the point at least and doesn't need more expounding of his views. Brian, you may find it beneficial to learn that criticism of a proposal is not the same as an insult, and that correct criticism remains valid regardless of where it comes from. Once you learn to accept that, you may start finding it considerably easier to work with large teams on technical issues. And no. My claim is that since VALID_USE on its own doesn't allow for anything that can't also be done by pkg_pretend, and since pkg_pretend can do things that developers and users need that VALID_USE can't, and since pkg_pretend doesn't break anything that's not already broken, VALID_USE shouldn't be a priority. The issue can be revisited for EAPI 5 when there's more Portage development time available, and when it is revisited, it should be done with related issues such as ensuring that cycle breaking is possible without randomly breaking user systems in horrible ways. --=20 Ciaran McCreesh --Sig_/Hiixm9g=oiFMHN0sqHKY0c4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAku0hzYACgkQ96zL6DUtXhHb2ACfdtFQSJ/NYvLERyt/Yr5pT2l7 Y+cAn1dL8rDzF43THsFKkUaIefmj9F0V =ZqIk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/Hiixm9g=oiFMHN0sqHKY0c4--