From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NuX96-00088Y-CD for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:25:46 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D506E0B7F; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:25:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yx0-f190.google.com (mail-yx0-f190.google.com [209.85.210.190]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1964E0B79 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:25:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yxe28 with SMTP id 28so3852083yxe.10 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:25:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=KOXKxa7/hVSbyluKNGGHA35eJ2SOLoGvQMkw2gicEqE=; b=L8c2BbCVmBtWh5xzCGB01aGZeokQg3eHKQ/Rxn49ybaTjSrW35zymDEZrkS519UCIm V679G69GyEBUbMPl4cVLRrAXli3RR1iVoCy6LujVCNv1sfqI/CdSM4wDY8GZIJMTYRMv GGydAZVFte1l3YclPk0C1/QVoMXjFveo1GbkE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; b=O7Xdr1ouLb8Bodk1AIGunxLLm9DtTEVb8FCS0oEaDZPuEJbn017fx7vMOoxFct/Et2 lGqWoKxIkB8u+sVnlmW17UyHnT9PUCMP4LS1PVxlRU2vq/5Mq4fhjLQtzi1ZyRp308Ob 38bH/Iy2UqxhiTKZycxP0ekOGV12ytM/ZtDxY= Received: by 10.101.205.13 with SMTP id h13mr3005580anq.232.1269462334345; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linux1 (cpe-76-183-49-63.tx.res.rr.com [76.183.49.63]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 14sm231421gxk.3.2010.03.24.13.25.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Sender: William Hubbs Received: by linux1 (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:25:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:25:29 -0500 From: William Hubbs To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item Message-ID: <20100324202529.GA23374@linux1> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <201003041923.17749.Arfrever@gentoo.org> <201003241744.31105.Arfrever@gentoo.org> <20100324095735.1bba94a2@angelstorm> <201003241814.45606.Arfrever@gentoo.org> <20100324103237.0b534fd0@angelstorm> <20100324180334.GA23065@linux1> <4BAA6EA0.6080801@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BAA6EA0.6080801@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Archives-Salt: a0823576-120b-473f-82d3-96b252107a71 X-Archives-Hash: f0e9729abce455fa8da5bbb8f0c00169 --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 08:57:20PM +0100, Thomas Sachau wrote: > Am 24.03.2010 19:03, schrieb William Hubbs: > > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 05:47:18PM +0000, Jeremy Olexa wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:32:37 -0700, Joshua Saddler > >> wrote: > >>>>> But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . . > >=20 > > Really? I've seen a few people object, but not everyone in gentoo. > >=20 > >>>> > >>>> Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said th= at > >>>> they didn't object to have Python 3 installed. > >>> > >>> They're in the minority, judging by the replies in this thread. > >> > >> I hate to get into the mix of this, but I suggest researching on "vocal > >> minority" and/or "silent majority" - the most vocal ones on this threa= d are > >> the minority of the population. I'm not attacking anyone, mind you. > >> > >> I haven't expressed anything on this thread but I'm ok with marking it > >> stable and having concerned users mask it. The stages might get kinda = funky > >> with both python-2 and 3 on them, but..if they are not BROKEN, I don't > >> care. > >=20 > > I tend to agree with this. I don't think it is right to force everyone > > to wait until most of the tree works with python3 before it goes stable. > > That is why python is slotted; it is possible to have both versions > > installed at the same time. If we have packages in the tree that are > > pulling in both versions of python but are not compatible with them, > > their dependencies need to be fixed. If users do not want python-3 on > > their systems, that is what /etc/portage/package.mask is for. > >=20 > > If we are going to make everyone wait until python-3 works with most > > packages in the tree, let's un-slot all versionf of python and hard mask > > python-3. > >=20 > > William > >=20 >=20 > Who said, that we are against a stable python-3 version? >=20 > The main point (as already pointed out in my previous thread about python= -3) is, that it is not in > any way required or used. But there are still wrong dependencies (where A= rfrever just closes bugs as > invalid) and packages like the mentioned "setuptools", which will always = pull in python-3. That is because setuptools works with both versions of python, and if a user wants both versions of python on their system they will need setuptools installed for both versions. You say there are "wrong dependencies". How are they wrong? I mean, do the packages with dev-lang/python in their deps not work with both versions of python? If they don't, they need to be fixed. If they do, they are correct. > Why should we pull in python-3 for ever user, force the usual user to ins= tall a useless python-3 and > additional files in python-3 path for many python packages? The minimum w= ould be to tell them, that > this python version is currently useless and they have the option to mask= it locally. And i really > dont think, that the default stable user knows, that python-3 is not real= ly needed and can be > masked, usually the pulled in dependencies are required, so he will expec= t the same for python-3. If we make it clear in the news item that python-3 cannot be used as the default python, so if users do not want it they should mask it, we have done our job imho. In other words, this is just a matter of informing users. William --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkuqdTkACgkQblQW9DDEZTh0TwCgjs+2cPe6ganrcNt5yjB+B08U YPEAnR8l67QbOxCxSoBKAxW74noVOK2i =JmkY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7--