From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NoV6Z-0002bT-Jw for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 08 Mar 2010 05:02:11 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A9486E0C53; Mon, 8 Mar 2010 05:02:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ew0-f209.google.com (mail-ew0-f209.google.com [209.85.219.209]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A423E0C32 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2010 05:02:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so1833575ewy.38 for ; Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:02:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:reply-to:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=kvGJ/OhAxBeuB+f6DxgmN7rXp5T2ZWbqs/FC3Ukl1gQ=; b=JiaMtR9k/jnZvC/MNSf5mkXFenNaa0+NGO0yDVJ9eOgPnXCQ/fO0NRd5/RllnY/b5u Hx5ZOvJAtDojFa2f30U2QVzq/CV/NsZtnDIzphysaEQAbnWgpSvhNgcZ6AG0nqbcZano F7sdrfoiV2yxL/QwyzHTjnoi8gZXsOS0z9LqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:reply-to:mail-followup-to :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; b=uGXunQadSW9sXZoqPEGuIQIp71IS7GP5W7Xjze8+x+uC3ze0/UowSbmzRJakmVsI0p xp0E7dFm+mypAFvYOS2lyq95+rSO5oVaVj9u6w9ZOU13mj0UAnC1jmcAXe4DGXgdd4Gu BxX4o7Z6At7HugdkCuWfZjGoCVBoEQP8Owi6o= Received: by 10.213.103.134 with SMTP id k6mr2580829ebo.2.1268024524310; Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:02:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zeerak.Fullrate (0110ds1-abc.0.fullrate.dk [90.185.49.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm8727869eya.26.2010.03.07.21.02.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:02:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 06:00:40 +0100 From: Zeerak Mustafa Waseem To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item Message-ID: <20100308050038.GA2172@Zeerak.Fullrate> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <201003041923.17749.Arfrever@gentoo.org> <4B902321.4020906@gentoo.org> <20100307171147.GL30005@halcy0n.com> <20100307210814.1dd43fc8@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100307210814.1dd43fc8@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Archives-Salt: 55a78b9d-c35a-473b-9d20-fdabc36863e4 X-Archives-Hash: fc3504d383bf42e49f7aa630da0710a1 --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 09:08:14PM -0600, Ryan Hill wrote: > On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:11:47 -0500 > Mark Loeser wrote: >=20 > > > Has QA given their blessing to this? > >=20 > > Absolutely not. Its actually the opposite. Until 90+% of the tree just > > works with the new version of python, it should not be stabilized. The > > stable tree should all Just Work together. Stabilizing python-3 at this > > point would be the equivalent of me stabilizing gcc-4.5 after its been > > in the tree for a few months and nothing else works with it. Sure, gcc > > works just fine, but it can't compile half of the tree. >=20 > I don't think it's the same. This is like saying we can't stabilize qt-4 > because half the tree is (was) qt-3. These packages are likely never goi= ng > to work with the newer version, that's why it's slotted and now we have an > admittedly impressive framework for making sure python-2 programs get > python-2 and python-3 get python-3. >=20 > Another example from my camp is wxGTK. Half the stuff in the tree (even = now) > doesn't work with 2.8, so we introduced a system where packages would get= the > version they needed, while users could use whatever version they wanted > independent of portage. 2.8 has been stable for over 3 years now. >=20 > I've been messing with the new python stuff this past week and I'm sold. = If > you recall I was one of the people completely against the idea last time = this > topic came up. >=20 > > I hope everyone can see that this is a terrible idea and of no use to > > our stable users. If a stable user really needs Python-3, they will > > have the technical ability to unmask it and use it properly. >=20 > A stable user who doesn't want python 3 installed shouldn't have it force= d on > them. If something is pulling in python-3 then that package needs to have > its dependencies fixed. IIRC Portage isn't greedy wrt. SLOTs like it was > before (unless you use @installed) so it shouldn't be pulled in by anythi= ng > that doesn't require it. >=20 > Are we really saying that no python-3-based package can go into stable un= til > 90% of the tree is python-3? That's like, 5 years from now, if ever. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > fonts, by design, by neglect > gcc-porting, for a fact or just for effect > wxwidgets @ gentoo EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662 I think that is being said is, due to python 3 being unnecessary for majori= ty of users, due to a small number of applications actually using it, it sh= ould be in ~arch. Of course an application that depends on python 3, but is= entirely stable should not be marked testing (to my reckoning at least). I= think the best way to go about it is to set python-3 in ~arch. As it has b= een said, should a user need python 3 they most likely know what they're do= ing and keywording it shouldn't be a problem. So my vote goes towards stabilizing the applications that depend on python = three, in their due time, and keeping python-3 keyworded. --=20 Zeerak Waseem --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLlIR2AAoJEBS1NNgpgWuWEGAH/0TsUxSTb3lfWtLnspajaMrP cLyTgWwjoxwrPj05qx8uaFGumJOg3Xqo7xLEVJd06Gwa0Vr1dH4tmtnUY8DGSXHR SX+aZNRl7EWogNMzPQxIfprK0QdzoZmUNKrrcBgkuHZBEAb0CbDJkngrTyYYbh85 z1siJAypfyz1pVaziiWDDXvP/N7xd83BGjxONXqa58tRMlN+opNiKgtmTotbCZ09 F9tItI/GCDHQ2u26B9pxJt7IURy1jk/OOxP587C+YMeeFEZPuGc2UvuTAKxVgvIL SVI1mljnGNIujVQmk+C6NQO9o1mlR5jGtqtvSerYnVRdUiwbKM6BHAnN5g48jNk= =OP0f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8t9RHnE3ZwKMSgU+--