From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MmuGk-0001gh-Q3 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:57:51 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 55F6FE09BB; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dev.gentooexperimental.org (dev.gentooexperimental.org [81.93.240.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12CBEE09BB for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lolcathost.localnet (xdsl-78-34-135-124.netcologne.de [78.34.135.124]) by dev.gentooexperimental.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B76700A46 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:57:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Patrick Lauer To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] overlay usage and maintainence [was: DistroWatch and Gentoo packages: status quo and future] Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:57:48 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.12.90 (Linux/2.6.30-gentoo-r1; KDE/4.3.68; x86_64; ; ) References: <4AAAD714.1010107@hartwork.org> <4AACCDBF.5020207@gentoo.org> <4AACD7C5.2080703@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: <4AACD7C5.2080703@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200909132057.48975.patrick@gentoo.org> X-Archives-Salt: e9985844-a37d-4473-92a9-584400df176b X-Archives-Hash: 5ff2759452e5181b845b96844ad73cf0 On Sunday 13 September 2009 13:30:13 Thomas Sachau wrote: > Richard Freeman schrieb: > > Jes=FAs Guerrero wrote: > >> Most Gentoo users will have no problem to use overlays as they need > >> them. If we had more developers we could as maintain more packages, > >> as simple as that. > > > > I actually tend to agree with this position, however to use overlays as > > a valid solution for end-users we need to do more to support them. Right > > now it is at least a little painful to get set up with an overlay. >=20 > I dont see any problem with "emerge layman; layman -L; layman -a preferred overlay>" =46irst issue: How do I find out in which overlay stuff is? Second issue: "I want foopackage and barpackage, but not your hacked gcc" Overlays can overshadow tree packages, which can have undesired effects. > If developers create safe-to-use overlays, then i think, there is somethi= ng > wrong. Those ebuilds shouldnt be hidden in any overlay, but instead be > added and maintained in the main tree. Exactly. I've annoyed a few people by moving stuff from their overlay to th= e=20 tree because it had been stuck in the overlay for ages and users were=20 wondering why we had no new versions. /usr/portage is my overlay :) [snip]=20 > I think, this is the wrong direction. Instead of moving more and more > things into overlays, we should keep as much as possible in our main tre= e. Yes. That's one of the reasons I used gentoo in the past ... no fractured=20 overlay mess like on other distros. One tree to rule them all. Now things a= re=20 a bit more complicated ... > With those two sets above removed, overlays would either contain breaking > stuff (playground for devs) or not checked ebuilds from users. For both > sets, the above ussage with layman should be easy enough. Indeed. And everything else should go into the tree. Also, everyone contributing regularly to an overlay (like X-Drum, who has d= one=20 an awesome job at maintaining Virtualbox) should sooner or later be recruit= ed=20 to work on the Big Overlay instead. Which points at another problem - our recruiting isn't as active as it shou= ld=20 be. Maybe we should have the Sith rule of gentoo dev'ing ... "Always two th= ere=20 are, a master and an apprentice". It should be every dev's goal to have at= =20 least one recruit at most times :) Or for those of you too lazy for that - do whatever you can to recruit your= =20 replacement. Once you've managed that you can be as lazy as you want!