From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Mbf8d-0003SS-Mp for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:34:59 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 96370E0647; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:34:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com (ey-out-1920.google.com [74.125.78.144]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE0CE0647 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:34:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so243778eyb.10 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type; bh=+xwcD6XUiHayXhgygp8rR9cXYryJVRqige30WlGZL54=; b=c6RBYLGbgQQpAfFc5Iphg4DIvkr6eVReggtyClPyN3fXqVhB5I9xoSjBJ1hcTaF7LK 9gnD3kJ43PUD4YN8rilnmSWrrybxRYma+ALNxVYrWt9tim4Dp4OwwJ8rgumVmNjOsrov XYPOMV4XbOHVxrwM5x04rxuQgyMAwasVNGQCA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; b=OBORH8i+Lzo+AGW1BAVQJKgBqxsAzy0zTytFzfDg5Bifzni68fyAj1uf9Yd5IjXLV8 WtkonwJDLY2ZLZ8L3QILEdlZy45arMeGjKpUDkUZa+26ZvFbUT2xFeang3bhCfhCWSo5 XI7mDsByBOmlmsbP2pEUa0ensXtvbpl/dDh0I= Received: by 10.216.85.213 with SMTP id u63mr240886wee.15.1250188497509; Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowcone (92-235-187-79.cable.ubr18.sgyl.blueyonder.co.uk [92.235.187.79]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i6sm335611gve.7.2009.08.13.11.34.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:34:51 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: RFC: Make 10.0 profiles EAPI-2 'compliant' Message-ID: <20090813193451.31961a95@snowcone> In-Reply-To: <44655500.sygxnxrhqW@news.friendly-coders.info> References: <90b936c0908121058y5fd25cfcm67a19761b1130896@mail.gmail.com> <200908122041.34205.scarabeus@gentoo.org> <20090812194656.47300704@snowcone> <20090813135658.2d497f7b@snowcone> <44655500.sygxnxrhqW@news.friendly-coders.info> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.2 (GTK+ 2.16.5; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/ERdoiUPU0arcXz9+Kdl+lP6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Archives-Salt: 2dcd0b2e-e56d-4dd4-ba3c-a22bcdfcc8e3 X-Archives-Hash: 8ac2a464aac4a786b6674a6454174f47 --Sig_/ERdoiUPU0arcXz9+Kdl+lP6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:22:16 +0100 Steven J Long wrote: > > PMS accurately reflects the Portage documentation and the commit > > message that introduced the feature -- it's purely for use > > in /etc/portage/, which is beyond the scope of PMS. > > > If it's pre-EAPI it's part of EAPI '0'. That you neglected to > document it, for whatever reason, is irrelevant. No, it's not part of EAPI 0. It's an accident. If you'd like another example of an accident, Portage won't complain if you stick garbage in certain metadata keys; this does not mean PMS should say that it's legal to put garbage in metadata keys. > > It is not the business of PMS to enforce undocumented features > It's not undocumented, as you just pointed out above. Using it in the tree is undocumented. Using it in user configuration is beyond the scope of PMS. > > that Portage supports only by accident > Oh, so now you know the minds of the portage developers? Yes. I know that they said when adding the directory feature that it was for use in user configuration files. That's what the commit message said, and that's what the documentation patch said. The documentation change explicitly only allowed the feature in user configuration, not the tree. Had the feature intended to be tree-usable, the documentation change would have said so. > I'd like to present an alternative viewpoint: portage developers are > happy to work to PMS, since it has utility for users. But ultimately, > they're not that bothered about pushing for new things, since the > process means dealing with you; adding features for portage only and > leaving it up to the wider community to push for them in EAPIs is an > awful lot less hassle. Even a casual look at EAPI 3 will show that that is nonsense. But then, you already know that from the previous times that claim has been made and refuted. > > and that aren't used in the tree.=20 > > Circular argument, don't you think? It's not in-tree so we won't put > it in PMS. It's not in PMS, so it's not allowed in-tree. That's only a circular argument if you snip out the rest of the sentence. > I'd like to ask the Council to consider whether EAPI development has > not in fact supplanted a large part of the GLEP process (specifically > the technical aspects to do with ebuild development.) As such, > insisting on all discussion on bugzilla is in fact a subversion of > the original process that people have agreed upon. Moving the discussion to bugzilla was the Council's decision, not mine. --=20 Ciaran McCreesh --Sig_/ERdoiUPU0arcXz9+Kdl+lP6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkqEXM0ACgkQ96zL6DUtXhG9pwCfZPnQVck4z5mnVCKsQktxHSmc Ba4An02VWyMvoO2caBLi6z8chDZhoszk =BexA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/ERdoiUPU0arcXz9+Kdl+lP6--