From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M4D1r-0005Kn-JI for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:53:43 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02D1EE04E0; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:53:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.146]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17F9E04E0 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:53:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 9so419009qwj.10 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 04:53:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=fCscWpU98Dw9S+OjB+jUTXLdwG22INWqFnktv50W5sI=; b=TSl7ifDvu3qaCnv5wBS5MgUUJ983HHNsOmCtpVirksjAIIVDyUy3d3Rt2lJTSUFpHf iOeutZpjUam92h+UVXS852AKBcJGpGjpZ6fmpjcXBk6zN3OXNJirs2CYzlbPeNM2DMNY 58FOmjYjcVKgIoC05wOo5kXaacl4seHYLUWRQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=fkSJNosOXMS5bnWVbVUIZDH64SbZP+G+8467nEY/IMcW3gkY+WcdfKSljWiYZVyWFD Rkr0VBNwz9IkZ6sn7hsytQYebv828gtAzM4JGEIuYtEhcjwqAsiEFLbFu+VxoxYtSRHG b6ISx3lv6tlsv6DS3jVHficOUY6yt42ObtcLU= Received: by 10.220.46.10 with SMTP id h10mr727795vcf.8.1242215621350; Wed, 13 May 2009 04:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.gmail.com ([68.46.138.24]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm2589951ywo.6.2009.05.13.04.53.36 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 13 May 2009 04:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Thomas Anderson Received: by smtp.gmail.com (nbSMTP-1.00) for uid 1000 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) gentoofan23@gentoo.org; Wed, 13 May 2009 07:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:53:36 -0400 From: Thomas Anderson To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Training points for users interested in helping out with ebuild development Message-ID: <20090513115336.GB18412@dodo.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> References: <200905042006.52646.mario.fetka@gmail.com> <4A08A3FC.7040308@gmail.com> <20090511233136.43fe62a2@snowmobile> <200905120835.41799.patrick@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0eh6TmSyL6TZE2Uz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200905120835.41799.patrick@gentoo.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) X-Archives-Salt: 3f5112b8-45fd-4fe7-86a7-5d40deee20aa X-Archives-Hash: 6a6f7205d15d7ae863d6fca6a7247f14 --0eh6TmSyL6TZE2Uz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:35:41AM +0200, Patrick Lauer wrote: > On Tuesday 12 May 2009 00:31:36 Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > > On Mon, 11 May 2009 23:17:32 +0100 > > > > George Prowse wrote: > > > An equilibrium seems to have been reached which currently works. > > > > An equilibrium has been reached, agreed, but that it works is up for > > debate. There is a strong argument to be made that preserving the > > equilibrium will keep Gentoo the way it is now -- delivering at best the > > same user experience now that it was several years ago, in an > > increasingly difficult and more competitive environment. >=20 > Then there's package management. (Your favourite topic, I guess, because = you=20 > want to keep complexifying it until one needs a PhD to write an ebuild [w= hich,=20 > in a way, would be quite ironic]) Same as Petteri here, new EAPIs make ebuilds easier to write for me, not harder. >=20 > And now you say "delivering the same user experience" ...=20 > ... ignoring the tons of new features and things that have happened. You'= re=20 > being dishonest again in an attempt to make us look like baboons. Two thi= rds=20 > of the new features grew on your compost heap (and half of these features= we=20 > didn't even want, but after about three years of you pushing them at ever= y=20 > opportunity people are getting so demotivated that they are willing to le= t you=20 > have one feature if you just STOP WHINING for more than 10 minutes)[GLEP5= 5,=20 > for example - there's about 8 people that want it, but those keep bringin= g it=20 > up at EVERY opportunity. It's still a fundamentally stupid idea that does= n't=20 > solve any problems, and the claim that it might solve problems we have in= the=20 > future is quite asinine because we can do the changes then, _if_ the=20 > theoretical problems actually become an issue, without messing up most=20 > everything now for some hypothetical gain that has not even conclusively = shown=20 > ...] I'd wager there are more than 8 people that want it, but even so, just because not many people realize its usefulness doesn't mean it's a bad proposal(unpopular decisions !=3D bad decisions, in other words). The changes we want are something that we want soon, but there's nothing we can do until something solving the problem GLEP 55 is solving is approved. Also, please stop the "compost heap", "whining" etc. It's tantamount to a personal attack. >=20 > - We're not in a bad shape, dying or dead. We don't intend to.=20 Few empires "intend" to die, but I'd agree that we're not dying/dead ;-). >=20 > - More complex doesn't mean better. > "Perfection isn't when you cannot add more things but when there are none= left=20 > to remove" or how that quote went. You know what I mean. Rewriting the in= it=20 > scripts in XML might be what some call progress (now you can verify 'em!)= , but=20 > it doesn't actually add any value and complexifies things in a bad way I've not seen anything complexifying things for no benefit recently. Care to mention those? >=20 > - Repeating a lie can make it true, if you repeat it long enough. Worst c= ase=20 > you just have to wait until everyone who disagrees dies of old age. >=20 Most things people are calling "lies" I'd call more "opinions that I disagree with". We really do dramatize and bring too much importance on disagreements ;-). Also, I imagine you're talking about glep54/glep55 none of which there have been lies spread by their proponents(that I've seen). --=20 --------- Thomas Anderson Gentoo Developer ///////// Areas of responsibility: AMD64, Secretary to the Gentoo Council --------- --0eh6TmSyL6TZE2Uz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoKtMAACgkQF6yMcaBxwHmRvgCfd/LtVpuR8XNufZjV2z3uvCGj 3YMAoIfcGGiaEg+ZH3St/Nks8fS0Es7V =1KVI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0eh6TmSyL6TZE2Uz--