[gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Markos Chandras]

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Hello folks,

	Qt-creator[1] program can support perforce[2] software configuration manager. 
My concern is the perforce license. According to their site[3] there is a 
dual(?) license.
There is the standard commercial license[4] and one for free software 
development[4]. Should I add both? Or am I missing something?
	Doing some research I found out that perforce-cli was in the portage back in 
2006 but not anymore. Can somebody recall the reason why it is not there 
anymore? If it wasn't a license issue , I want to bring it back ( at least the 
client for now ).
I am waiting your suggestions. Thank you

[1] http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/dev-util/qt-creator/
[2] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/
[3] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#license
[4] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#opensource
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
KDE/Qt/Sunrise/Sound
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.gr

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Robert Buchholz]

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On Saturday 21 March 2009, Markos Chandras wrote:
> 	Doing some research I found out that perforce-cli was in the portage
> back in 2006 but not anymore. Can somebody recall the reason why it
> is not there anymore? If it wasn't a license issue , I want to bring
> it back ( at least the client for now ).
> I am waiting your suggestions. Thank you

Revisiting old bugs, it seems it was removed due to distfile collisions 
(same name, different content in several perforce packages): 
https://bugs.gentoo.org/123923

Since we have src_uri arrows now, this is no show-stopper.


Robert

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Markos Chandras]

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On Saturday 21 March 2009 14:50:08 Robert Buchholz wrote:
> On Saturday 21 March 2009, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > 	Doing some research I found out that perforce-cli was in the portage
> > back in 2006 but not anymore. Can somebody recall the reason why it
> > is not there anymore? If it wasn't a license issue , I want to bring
> > it back ( at least the client for now ).
> > I am waiting your suggestions. Thank you
>
> Revisiting old bugs, it seems it was removed due to distfile collisions
> (same name, different content in several perforce packages):
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/123923
>
> Since we have src_uri arrows now, this is no show-stopper.
>
>
> Robert
Robert, 
	I already used src_uri arrows on that ebuild. The thing is that I don't know 
how mirrors treat the arrows. Will mirrors  save the file using the the normal 
filename or the one I specified on arrow? If the later, I need to have 
RESTRICT="nomirror" or something. I took a look on EAPI2 specifications but 
couldn't find how mirrors behave with arrows.
	About the licensing issue, i think that the best is to make it dual license 
cause this is what I get by reading their site over and over again.

If there are no objections, this package will be on tree withing the next 48 
hours.

Thanks
- - 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
KDE/Qt/Sunrise/Sound
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.gr

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Sebastian Pipping]

Markos Chandras wrote:
> Hello folks,
> 
> 	Qt-creator[1] program can support perforce[2] software configuration manager. 
> My concern is the perforce license. According to their site[3] there is a 
> dual(?) license.
> There is the standard commercial license[4] and one for free software 
> development[4]. Should I add both? Or am I missing something?

How about a single text file stating the main facts from
[3] and [4]?



Sebastian


> [3] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#license
> [4] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#opensource

Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:39:43 +0200
Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I took a look on EAPI2 specifications but couldn't find how mirrors
> behave with arrows.

It's supposed to say this:

> In EAPIs supporting arrows, if an arrow is used, the filename used
> when saving to \t{DISTDIR} shall instead be the name on the right of
> the arrow. When consulting mirrors (except for those explicitly
> listed on the left of the arrow, if \t{mirror://} is used), the
> filename to the right of the arrow shall be requested instead of the
> filename in the URI.

But it didn't, thanks to a formatting screwup. I've fixed that now.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Markos Chandras]

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On Saturday 21 March 2009 15:46:19 Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Markos Chandras wrote:
> > Hello folks,
> >
> > 	Qt-creator[1] program can support perforce[2] software configuration
> > manager. My concern is the perforce license. According to their site[3]
> > there is a dual(?) license.
> > There is the standard commercial license[4] and one for free software
> > development[4]. Should I add both? Or am I missing something?
>
> How about a single text file stating the main facts from
> [3] and [4]?
>
>
>
> Sebastian
>
> > [3] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#license
> > [4] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#opensource

Sebastian,	
	Why would I want to do that? The license files should stay untouched. There is 
nothing wrong of having both licenses on ebuild since this is the upstream 
policy.
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
KDE/Qt/Sunrise/Sound
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.gr

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Sebastian Pipping]

Markos Chandras wrote:
> Sebastian,	
> 	Why would I want to do that? The license files should stay untouched. There is 
> nothing wrong of having both licenses on ebuild since this is the upstream 
> policy.

I forgot that the license files upstream might change
so I agree you need a copy downstream.

However, if the "End User License Agreement for
Open Source Software Development" document alone
doesn't say that

  1) "Perforce Software reserves the right to approve
      the Open Source license" (from [4]) and

  2) "Execution of a End User License Agreement [..]
      is required" (from [4])

(which at least I didn't find in the PDF) you will have
to add that somewhere somehow because people could
otherwise start using then software under that license
without being permitted to.

Also, please pay extra attention to the difference
between the terms "Open Source License" and
"Open Source End User License Agreement".  Thank you.



Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Alec Warner]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
<ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:39:43 +0200
> Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I took a look on EAPI2 specifications but couldn't find how mirrors
>> behave with arrows.
>
> It's supposed to say this:
>
>> In EAPIs supporting arrows, if an arrow is used, the filename used
>> when saving to \t{DISTDIR} shall instead be the name on the right of
>> the arrow. When consulting mirrors (except for those explicitly
>> listed on the left of the arrow, if \t{mirror://} is used), the
>> filename to the right of the arrow shall be requested instead of the
>> filename in the URI.
>
> But it didn't, thanks to a formatting screwup. I've fixed that now.

I think Markos is talking about the actual mirror-fetch script itself.
 The gentoo mirrors still use a flat namespace so someone will need to
update mirror-fetch to rename files based on src_uri arrows.  And by
'someone' I mean Zac.

-A

>
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh
>

Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Markos Chandras]

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On Saturday 21 March 2009 21:41:39 Alec Warner wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
>
> <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:39:43 +0200
> >
> > Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> I took a look on EAPI2 specifications but couldn't find how mirrors
> >> behave with arrows.
> >
> > It's supposed to say this:
> >> In EAPIs supporting arrows, if an arrow is used, the filename used
> >> when saving to \t{DISTDIR} shall instead be the name on the right of
> >> the arrow. When consulting mirrors (except for those explicitly
> >> listed on the left of the arrow, if \t{mirror://} is used), the
> >> filename to the right of the arrow shall be requested instead of the
> >> filename in the URI.
> >
> > But it didn't, thanks to a formatting screwup. I've fixed that now.
>
> I think Markos is talking about the actual mirror-fetch script itself.
>  The gentoo mirrors still use a flat namespace so someone will need to
> update mirror-fetch to rename files based on src_uri arrows.  And by
> 'someone' I mean Zac.
>
> -A
>
> > --
> > Ciaran McCreesh
	Actually I didn't understand completely what Ciaran said. I am still not 
quite sure how mirrors treat the SRC_URI with arrows. Will they fetch the file 
from upstream as save it with the filename I specified on arrow or they will 
save it respecting the upstream filename? :)
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
KDE/Qt/Sunrise/Sound
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.gr

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Alec Warner]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 21 March 2009 21:41:39 Alec Warner wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
>>
>> <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:39:43 +0200
>> >
>> > Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> >> I took a look on EAPI2 specifications but couldn't find how mirrors
>> >> behave with arrows.
>> >
>> > It's supposed to say this:
>> >> In EAPIs supporting arrows, if an arrow is used, the filename used
>> >> when saving to \t{DISTDIR} shall instead be the name on the right of
>> >> the arrow. When consulting mirrors (except for those explicitly
>> >> listed on the left of the arrow, if \t{mirror://} is used), the
>> >> filename to the right of the arrow shall be requested instead of the
>> >> filename in the URI.
>> >
>> > But it didn't, thanks to a formatting screwup. I've fixed that now.
>>
>> I think Markos is talking about the actual mirror-fetch script itself.
>>  The gentoo mirrors still use a flat namespace so someone will need to
>> update mirror-fetch to rename files based on src_uri arrows.  And by
>> 'someone' I mean Zac.
>>
>> -A
>>
>> > --
>> > Ciaran McCreesh
>        Actually I didn't understand completely what Ciaran said. I am still not
> quite sure how mirrors treat the SRC_URI with arrows. Will they fetch the file
> from upstream as save it with the filename I specified on arrow or they will
> save it respecting the upstream filename? :)

I think you will encounter namespace collisions, thats why I CC'd zac
as he maintains mirror-dist ;p

> --
> Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
> Gentoo Linux Developer
> KDE/Qt/Sunrise/Sound
> Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.gr
>

Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I think you will encounter namespace collisions, thats why I CC'd zac
> as he maintains mirror-dist ;p
>

Why the hell didn't we think of this before!? :o

The mirror-dist script *cannot* rename the upstream files for storage,
since emerge will be looking for the *original* filename on the gentoo
mirror. And if we keep them the same, we'll have collisions on the
mirror, which is more probable (and severe) than a collision on a
user's local DISTDIR.

The easiest solution I can think of is for emerge to give special
consideration to the mirrors in GENTOO_MIRRORS, and look for the
renamed file there instead of the original ones.

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan who is extremely bewildered by this oversight

Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Robert Buchholz]

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On Sunday 22 March 2009, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> 
wrote:
> > I think you will encounter namespace collisions, thats why I CC'd
> > zac as he maintains mirror-dist ;p
>
> Why the hell didn't we think of this before!? :o
>
> The mirror-dist script *cannot* rename the upstream files for
> storage, since emerge will be looking for the *original* filename on
> the gentoo mirror. And if we keep them the same, we'll have
> collisions on the mirror, which is more probable (and severe) than a
> collision on a user's local DISTDIR.
>
> The easiest solution I can think of is for emerge to give special
> consideration to the mirrors in GENTOO_MIRRORS, and look for the
> renamed file there instead of the original ones.

No reason to panic. :-)
This is what Portage already does and what is specified in EAPI=2.
Refer to the paragraph quoted by Ciaran earlier in this thread.

Do we have a reason to believe our mirror scripts do not already handle 
this correctly? Because to me it seems they do.

$ ebuild bashburn-3.0.ebuild unpack
Downloading 'http://ftp.spline.inf.fu-berlin.de/mirrors/gentoo/distfiles/BashBurn-3.0.tar.gz'
--2009-03-22 15:48:57--  
http://ftp.spline.inf.fu-berlin.de/mirrors/gentoo/distfiles/BashBurn-3.0.tar.gz
Resolving ftp.spline.inf.fu-berlin.de... 130.133.110.66
Connecting to ftp.spline.inf.fu-berlin.de|130.133.110.66|:80... 
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 84435 (82K) [application/octet-stream]
Saving to: `/usr/portage/distfiles/BashBurn-3.0.tar.gz'
...

$ G
ENTOO_MIRRORS="" ebuild bashburn-3.0.ebuild unpack
Downloading 'http://bashburn.dose.se/index.php?s=file_download&id=3'
--2009-03-22 15:49:12--  
http://bashburn.dose.se/index.php?s=file_download&id=3
Resolving bashburn.dose.se... 90.227.105.216
Connecting to bashburn.dose.se|90.227.105.216|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: unspecified [application/octet-stream]
Saving to: `/usr/portage/distfiles/BashBurn-3.0.tar.gz'
....

Robert

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:44:48 +0530
Nirbheek Chauhan <nirbheek@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > I think you will encounter namespace collisions, thats why I CC'd
> > zac as he maintains mirror-dist ;p
> 
> Why the hell didn't we think of this before!? :o

Uhm. We did. PMS is worded very carefully to ensure that this all
works. The only question is whether Portage's mirroring scripts are
broken. Alec seems to think they are; I'm sceptical, because a) I
pestered Zac about the issue really early on, and b) I strongly suspect
we'd've seen the breakage by now if they were.

> The easiest solution I can think of is for emerge to give special
> consideration to the mirrors in GENTOO_MIRRORS, and look for the
> renamed file there instead of the original ones.

I quote:

In EAPIs supporting arrows, if an arrow is used, the filename used when
saving to \t{DISTDIR} shall instead be the name on the right of the
arrow. When consulting mirrors (except for those explicitly listed on
the left of the arrow, if \t{mirror://} is used), the filename to the
right of the arrow shall be requested instead of the filename in the
URI.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Ciaran McCreesh
<ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I quote:
>
> In EAPIs supporting arrows, if an arrow is used, the filename used when
> saving to \t{DISTDIR} shall instead be the name on the right of the
> arrow. When consulting mirrors (except for those explicitly listed on
> the left of the arrow, if \t{mirror://} is used), the filename to the
> right of the arrow shall be requested instead of the filename in the
> URI.
>

Right, thanks for clearing that up :)

/me heaves a sigh of relief

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Markos Chandras]

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On Saturday 21 March 2009 14:06:09 Markos Chandras wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> 	Qt-creator[1] program can support perforce[2] software configuration
> manager. My concern is the perforce license. According to their site[3]
> there is a dual(?) license.
> There is the standard commercial license[4] and one for free software
> development[4]. Should I add both? Or am I missing something?
> 	Doing some research I found out that perforce-cli was in the portage back
> in 2006 but not anymore. Can somebody recall the reason why it is not there
> anymore? If it wasn't a license issue , I want to bring it back ( at least
> the client for now ).
> I am waiting your suggestions. Thank you
>
> [1] http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/dev-util/qt-creator/
> [2] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/
> [3] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#license
> [4] http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html#opensource

	Responding to my self, i decided not to bring this package on tree and 
instead use an ewarn message to inform user that if he wants perforce support, 
he needs to download the binary by himself. Thats not a big deal since the 
binary doesnt even require installation or anything else. 
-- 
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Qt/KDE/Sunrise/Sound
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.gr



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Re: [gentoo-dev] perforce client proper license

[Alec Warner]

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
<ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:44:48 +0530
> Nirbheek Chauhan <nirbheek@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 2:58 AM, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org>
>> wrote:
>> > I think you will encounter namespace collisions, thats why I CC'd
>> > zac as he maintains mirror-dist ;p
>>
>> Why the hell didn't we think of this before!? :o
>
> Uhm. We did. PMS is worded very carefully to ensure that this all
> works. The only question is whether Portage's mirroring scripts are
> broken. Alec seems to think they are; I'm sceptical, because a) I
> pestered Zac about the issue really early on, and b) I strongly suspect
> we'd've seen the breakage by now if they were.

I said I doubted they were and to ask the maintainer:

00:45 < antarus> zmedico: do the mirroring scripts do src_uri arrows properly?
00:46 < zmedico> antarus: yes
00:46 < antarus> ok super ;)

Thread Over ;)

>
>> The easiest solution I can think of is for emerge to give special
>> consideration to the mirrors in GENTOO_MIRRORS, and look for the
>> renamed file there instead of the original ones.
>
> I quote:
>
> In EAPIs supporting arrows, if an arrow is used, the filename used when
> saving to \t{DISTDIR} shall instead be the name on the right of the
> arrow. When consulting mirrors (except for those explicitly listed on
> the left of the arrow, if \t{mirror://} is used), the filename to the
> right of the arrow shall be requested instead of the filename in the
> URI.
>
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh
>