[gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Tomáš Chvátal]

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Hi,
lately i see that in our bugzilla most of the build reports are reported with 
localized build logs which we dont understand. This leads to us asking the 
user to run the emerge once more with LC_ALL=C.

Wont it be nice to have this variable set by default in portage so users 
reporting bugs report in English? Since if everything goes fine they dont even 
bother about the warnings/errors and if something goes wrong it ends up on us 
to solve the mess :]

The LC_ALL should be set for all relevant configure/compile/install phases at 
least.

Regards
Tomas

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Re: [gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Alexis Ballier]

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Hi,

> lately i see that in our bugzilla most of the build reports are
> reported with localized build logs which we dont understand. This
> leads to us asking the user to run the emerge once more with LC_ALL=C.
> 
> Wont it be nice to have this variable set by default in portage so
> users reporting bugs report in English? Since if everything goes fine
> they dont even bother about the warnings/errors and if something goes
> wrong it ends up on us to solve the mess :]


Moreover this would automagically solve the [a-z] & friends regexp
failures; though that's still good QA to fix them but we wouldn't
encounter them anymore.

Alexis.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Harald van Dijk]

On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 09:20:14PM +0100, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> Hi,
> lately i see that in our bugzilla most of the build reports are reported with 
> localized build logs which we dont understand. This leads to us asking the 
> user to run the emerge once more with LC_ALL=C.
> 
> Wont it be nice to have this variable set by default in portage so users 
> reporting bugs report in English?

I can't speak for others, but I'd like to find and fix bugs with strange
locales, at least for the packages I maintain. If portage were to force
LC_ALL=C on me, I'd have a very hard time doing so.

Re: [gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Harald van Dijk]

On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 09:27:20PM +0100, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> Moreover this would automagically solve the [a-z] & friends regexp
> failures; though that's still good QA to fix them but we wouldn't
> encounter them anymore.

We would encounter them when using the programs outside of portage, but
not when running the testsuite (if available) from within portage. It
would succeed in working around compile-time only bugs, but it would be
a major pain for locale bugs that can also cause problems at run time.

[gentoo-dev] Re: LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Ryan Hill]

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On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 21:20:14 +0100
Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> lately i see that in our bugzilla most of the build reports are
> reported with localized build logs which we dont understand. This
> leads to us asking the user to run the emerge once more with LC_ALL=C.
> 
> Wont it be nice to have this variable set by default in portage so
> users reporting bugs report in English? Since if everything goes fine
> they dont even bother about the warnings/errors and if something goes
> wrong it ends up on us to solve the mess :]
> 
> The LC_ALL should be set for all relevant configure/compile/install
> phases at least.

You do realize that many people don't speak any English, and therefore
wouldn't be filing bugs anyways?  They just want to use their
computer.  I'm not sure they will appreciate you forcing a language they
don't speak on them any more than I would like to suddenly see all my
build errors in Myanmar.

-- 
gcc-porting,                                      by design, by neglect
treecleaner,                              for a fact or just for effect
wxwidgets @ gentoo     EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Dawid Węgliński]

On Sunday 08 of March 2009 23:50:08 Ryan Hill wrote:

> You do realize that many people don't speak any English, and therefore
> wouldn't be filing bugs anyways?  They just want to use their
> computer.  I'm not sure they will appreciate you forcing a language they
> don't speak on them any more than I would like to suddenly see all my
> build errors in Myanmar.

Plz fix the bug [1]

[1] - http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166730

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Josh Saddler]

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Dawid Węgliński wrote:
> On Sunday 08 of March 2009 23:50:08 Ryan Hill wrote:
> 
>> You do realize that many people don't speak any English, and therefore
>> wouldn't be filing bugs anyways?  They just want to use their
>> computer.  I'm not sure they will appreciate you forcing a language they
>> don't speak on them any more than I would like to suddenly see all my
>> build errors in Myanmar.
> 
> Plz fix the bug [1]
> 
> [1] - http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166730
> 

Possible solution:

Don't set LC_ALL in general unless you're merging to get specific error
messages. It's a known issue. Try searching for LC_ALL among CLOSED
documentation bugs. Pops up a lot:

[1] http://tinyurl.com/d3df5y (bug search list)
[2] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=260477
[3] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/bugzilla-howto.xml
[4] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/guide-localization.xml#doc_chap3 *

* Note the big ol' WARNING before code listing 3.1.




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Re: [gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Sunday 08 March 2009 16:20:14 Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> lately i see that in our bugzilla most of the build reports are reported
> with localized build logs which we dont understand. This leads to us asking
> the user to run the emerge once more with LC_ALL=C.

LC_ALL does a lot more than localization of messages.  this topic has come up 
before on the list, so i'd search the archives for all the reasons why this is 
not the thing to do.
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Sunday 08 March 2009 18:52:58 Dawid Węgliński wrote:
> On Sunday 08 of March 2009 23:50:08 Ryan Hill wrote:
> > You do realize that many people don't speak any English, and therefore
> > wouldn't be filing bugs anyways?  They just want to use their
> > computer.  I'm not sure they will appreciate you forcing a language they
> > don't speak on them any more than I would like to suddenly see all my
> > build errors in Myanmar.
>
> Plz fix the bug [1]
>
> [1] - http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166730

it's not entirely clear this is a locale specific bug considering other people 
say they hit it with en_US.UTF8.  that's the locale i use and ive never hit 
that problem.
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Tomáš Chvátal]

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Dne pondělí 09 Březen 2009 01:35:07 Mike Frysinger napsal(a):
> On Sunday 08 March 2009 16:20:14 Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> > lately i see that in our bugzilla most of the build reports are reported
> > with localized build logs which we dont understand. This leads to us
> > asking the user to run the emerge once more with LC_ALL=C.
>
> LC_ALL does a lot more than localization of messages.  this topic has come
> up before on the list, so i'd search the archives for all the reasons why
> this is not the thing to do.
> -mike
Well if complete LC_ALL is not option so how about reseting at least 
LC_MESSAGES...

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Re: [gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Sunday 08 March 2009 20:38:01 Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> Dne pondělí 09 Březen 2009 01:35:07 Mike Frysinger napsal(a):
> > On Sunday 08 March 2009 16:20:14 Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> > > lately i see that in our bugzilla most of the build reports are
> > > reported with localized build logs which we dont understand. This leads
> > > to us asking the user to run the emerge once more with LC_ALL=C.
> >
> > LC_ALL does a lot more than localization of messages.  this topic has
> > come up before on the list, so i'd search the archives for all the
> > reasons why this is not the thing to do.
>
> Well if complete LC_ALL is not option so how about reseting at least
> LC_MESSAGES...

that would be a lot safer, but i still dont agree it should be done.  document 
the process in the bugzilla howto and call it a day.  see #198077 and #260477.
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Maciej Mrozowski]

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On Monday 09 of March 2009 01:36:52 Mike Frysinger wrote:

> > Plz fix the bug [1]
> >
> > [1] - http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166730

In my opinion it's nowhere near locale specific bug, unless user sets 
PORTAGE_TMPDIR to some path containing UTF-8 character beyond ASCII and having 
broken locales in system. The problem is mainly that such build logs are 
barely helpful when localized in some funny way.

> it's not entirely clear this is a locale specific bug considering other
> people say they hit it with en_US.UTF8.  that's the locale i use and ive
> never hit that problem.

Agreed.

-- 
regards
MM

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Re: [gentoo-dev] LC_ALL=C Set by default for portage

[Serkan Kaba]

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Hash: SHA1

Harald van Dijk yazmış:
> On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 09:27:20PM +0100, Alexis Ballier wrote:
>> Moreover this would automagically solve the [a-z] & friends regexp
>> failures; though that's still good QA to fix them but we wouldn't
>> encounter them anymore.
> 
> We would encounter them when using the programs outside of portage, but
> not when running the testsuite (if available) from within portage. It
> would succeed in working around compile-time only bugs, but it would be
> a major pain for locale bugs that can also cause problems at run time.
> 
> 
I agree. There are quite a number of bugs, either compile time or
runtime, that can be spotted and reported to upstream (and hope that
they get fixed) in Turkish locale and I posted on my dev blog why[1]
this happens. I choose to translate the messages after the build.log if
I reproduce the bug only in Turkish locale. If our bug reporting guide
is not guiding people (yeah people don't read docs and especially ones
that are longer than a paragraph and in a language that they can't read)
portage could say a few words on sending the bug report in English if it
spots another locale with the exception of the bug being a locale
specific issue.

1:
http://blogs.gentoo.org/serkan/2008/11/16/applications_failing_with_turkish_locale
- --
Sincerely,
Serkan KABA
Gentoo Developer
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