[gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Philip Webb]

I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
but IBM has an article

  http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html

whose byline is very misleading & may infringe on Gentoo's IP.
I have submitted a comment to IBM via their form at the bottom of the page.

HTH

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Josh Saddler]

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Philip Webb wrote:
> I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
> but IBM has an article
> 
>   http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
> 
> whose byline is very misleading & may infringe on Gentoo's IP.
> I have submitted a comment to IBM via their form at the bottom of the page.

Uh, this article really *was* written by drobbins some time ago. It's 
okay. It's all perfectly legal; in fact, check out 
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/

I and some other folks GuideXMLified the original developerWorks 
articles and republished them on gentoo.org with permission.

Example for the URL you posted: 
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/l-awk1.xml

However, everything else drobbins wrote can be found in 
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/, as can several other articles 
written by Gentoo folks over the years.

No need for the alarm, folks. Simmahdownah.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Krzysiek Pawlik]

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Philip Webb wrote:
> I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
> but IBM has an article
> 
>   http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
> 
> whose byline is very misleading & may infringe on Gentoo's IP.

Those articles are listed on http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml?desc=1

-- 
Krzysiek Pawlik   <nelchael at gentoo.org>   key id: 0xBC555551
desktop-misc, java, apache, ppc, vim, kernel, python...


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Doug Goldstein]

Philip Webb wrote:
> I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
> but IBM has an article
>
>   http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
>
> whose byline is very misleading & may infringe on Gentoo's IP.
> I have submitted a comment to IBM via their form at the bottom of the page.
>
> HTH
>
>   
What exactly is wrong? Daniel lives in New Mexico. Daniel was the 
President of Gentoo Technologies, Inc and Gentoo Games, Inc. until their 
corporate dissolution by the state of New Mexico in 2004 and 2005 
respectively. He did create Gentoo Linux, which many Gentoo users and 
developers will argue is an advanced Linux. I'll give you the point that 
it's not just for the PC but for assorted hardware. He was involved as a 
contributor to the books referenced. I can't speak for Daniel's 
childhood or his hobbies. As far as I know, infra does have a forward 
setup for him from drobbins@gentoo.org or it's possible that forward has 
expired already. Only infra knows.

You might be confusing the Gentoo Foundation, Inc. with Gentoo 
Technologies, Inc. But no where does that site talk about the Gentoo 
Foundation.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Robin H. Johnson]

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On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:49:27PM -0400, Doug Goldstein wrote:
> As far as I know, infra does have a forward setup for him from
> drobbins@gentoo.org or it's possible that forward has expired already.
> Only infra knows.
He got a lifetime forward with the formation of the foundation/trustees.
He doesn't use it for outgoing mail much I think.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer & Infra Guy
E-Mail     : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Philip Webb]

080716 Josh Saddler wrote:
> Philip Webb wrote:
>> I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
>> but IBM has an article
>>   http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
>> whose byline is very misleading & may infringe on Gentoo's IP.
>> I have submitted a comment to IBM via their form.
> Uh, this article really *was* written by drobbins some time ago.
> It's okay.  It's all perfectly legal; in fact, check out 
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/

Yes, it looks as if someone at IBM simply copied it from there,
where it is indeed marked "updated".

> I and some other folks GuideXMLified the original developerWorks articles 
> and republished them on gentoo.org with permission, eg the URL you posted: 
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/l-awk1.xml

Yes, that's it.

> No need for the alarm, folks. Simmahdownah.

There remains an error in the IBM page above & the Gentoo doc version,
ie the URL given for 'Gentoo Technologies Inc' is 'www.gentoo.org'.
Whether the author still maintains GTI in New Mexico isn't clear
(there's another 'GTI' in Blacksburg VA , which makes databases etc),
but even if so, its Internet site is not the same as Gentoo Foundation's:
this needs to be corrected by the maintainer of Gentoo docs & by IBM.

One would also assume that the author has a more direct e-address
than the forwarding address at Gentoo still given in the article
& the personal details seem to be 8 years old (eg "new baby"):
those also would better be updated or deleted.

In contrast with traditional printed media -- press or advertising --
the Internet is often less precise & therefore can be seriously misleading:
there is a lot of out-of-date information lying around
& no-one to take responsibility for it.

So no alarm, but cause for a couple of updates when time permits.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Josh Saddler]

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Philip Webb wrote:
> 080716 Josh Saddler wrote:
>> Philip Webb wrote:
>>> I'm not sure whether anyone among Gentoo officials cares about this,
>>> but IBM has an article
>>>   http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
>>> whose byline is very misleading & may infringe on Gentoo's IP.
>>> I have submitted a comment to IBM via their form.
>> Uh, this article really *was* written by drobbins some time ago.
>> It's okay.  It's all perfectly legal; in fact, check out 
>> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/
> 
> Yes, it looks as if someone at IBM simply copied it from there,
> where it is indeed marked "updated".

Perhaps you misunderstand -- the articles originally were written *for 
developerWorks*, not for Gentoo. That's where they first appeared 7 or 8 
years ago.

> There remains an error in the IBM page above & the Gentoo doc version,
> ie the URL given for 'Gentoo Technologies Inc' is 'www.gentoo.org'.
> Whether the author still maintains GTI in New Mexico isn't clear
> (there's another 'GTI' in Blacksburg VA , which makes databases etc),
> but even if so, its Internet site is not the same as Gentoo Foundation's:
> this needs to be corrected by the maintainer of Gentoo docs & by IBM.
> 
> One would also assume that the author has a more direct e-address
> than the forwarding address at Gentoo still given in the article
> & the personal details seem to be 8 years old (eg "new baby"):
> those also would better be updated or deleted.
> 
> In contrast with traditional printed media -- press or advertising --
> the Internet is often less precise & therefore can be seriously misleading:
> there is a lot of out-of-date information lying around
> & no-one to take responsibility for it.

Nothing about the article really needs to be updated, either on the 
Gentoo side or the IBM side.

If you look through the CVS log, about the only changes we made were a 
few typo fixes or adding GuideXML code to stuff that wasn't so well 
highlighted in the original. That's it. Nothing more needs to be done -- 
these articles are snapshots of how things used to be. We don't need to 
wipe out everything that's old, do we? Why not leave the information 
there so people can get some history? What if people don't want more 
recent information shared, and don't want a new email for all to see?

Seriously, nothing needs to be done on the IBM side, nor on ours. It's 
not an issue. There's no infringement anywhere, so please just let it go.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Jan Kundrát]

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Josh Saddler wrote:
>> Yes, it looks as if someone at IBM simply copied it from there,
>> where it is indeed marked "updated".
> 
> Perhaps you misunderstand -- the articles originally were written *for 
> developerWorks*, not for Gentoo. That's where they first appeared 7 or 8 
> years ago.

And that's also why Philip should thank IBM instead of pestering them :).

Cheers,
-jkt

-- 
cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth


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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Philip Webb]

080717 Josh Saddler wrote:
> Philip Webb wrote:
>> There remains an error in the IBM page above & the Gentoo doc version,
>> ie the URL given for 'Gentoo Technologies Inc' is 'www.gentoo.org'.
>> Whether the author still maintains GTI in New Mexico isn't clear
>> (there's another 'GTI' in Blacksburg VA , which makes databases etc),
>> but even if so, its Internet site is not the same as Gentoo Foundation's:
>> this needs to be corrected by the maintainer of Gentoo docs & by IBM.
>> One would also assume that the author has a more direct e-address
>> than the forwarding address at Gentoo still given in the article
>> & the personal details seem to be 8 years old (eg "new baby"):
>> those also would better be updated or deleted.
>> In contrast with traditional printed media -- press or advertising --
>> the Internet is often less precise & therefore can be seriously 
>> misleading: there is a lot of out-of-date information lying around
>> & no-one to take responsibility for it.
> these articles are snapshots of how things used to be.
> We don't need to wipe out everything that's old, do we?
> Why not leave the information there so people can get some history?

Neither an e-mail address nor an Internet URL is "some history":
they are a means of contacting a person & a link to a site
& as such they should be upto-date or deleted.

> What if people don't want more recent information shared
> and don't want a new email for all to see?

In that case, as I said in my previous message, they should be deleted.

> Seriously, nothing needs to be done on the IBM side, nor on ours.
> It's not an issue.  please just let it go.

Well, I have much more important things to do today (smile),
but you are missing the point.  Any newspaper or magazine editor knows
that when they reprint an article, some details may need updating
or at least a clear disclaimer needs adding to warn readers
that "This article was first published in 2000 & is reprinted as was".
In the current case neither IBM nor Gentoo docs has done either.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Jan Kundrát]

Philip Webb wrote:
> Neither an e-mail address nor an Internet URL is "some history":
> they are a means of contacting a person & a link to a site
> & as such they should be upto-date or deleted.

Daniel Robbins founded Gentoo. His mail is still valid and will remain so.

> but you are missing the point.  Any newspaper or magazine editor knows
> that when they reprint an article, some details may need updating
> or at least a clear disclaimer needs adding to warn readers
> that "This article was first published in 2000 & is reprinted as was".
> In the current case neither IBM nor Gentoo docs has done either.

Do you happen to know of any Internet news portal that adds a note "hey
Philip, this article is older than two days, it might not be accurate
anymore"?

Anyway, perhaps you should read the articles more carefully:

"Disclaimer :  The original version of this article was first published
on IBM developerWorks, and is property of Westtech Information Services.
This document is an updated version of the original article, and
contains various improvements made by the Gentoo Linux Documentation team.
This document is not actively maintained." [1]

"01 Dec 2000 Updated 03 Jul 2008" [2]

*Nothing* needs changing.

Better stick to the more important things.

Cheers,
-jkt

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/articles/l-awk1.xml
[2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Philip Webb]

080717 Jan Kundrát wrote:
> "01 Dec 2000 Updated 03 Jul 2008" [2]
> [2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html

The '03 Jul 2008' has been added since I sent my comment to them yesterday !
However, the incorrect URL for Gentoo Technologies -- www.gentoo.org --
is still there, probably because I didn't mention it in my comment,
so I'll try sending them another.

> *Nothing* needs changing.  Better stick to the more important things.

Yes, where professional standards & peer review mean something (wry smile).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Jeremy Olexa]

Philip Webb wrote:
> 080717 Jan Kundr�t wrote:
>> "01 Dec 2000 Updated 03 Jul 2008" [2]
>> [2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
> 
> The '03 Jul 2008' has been added since I sent my comment to them yesterday !
> However, the incorrect URL for Gentoo Technologies -- www.gentoo.org --
> is still there, probably because I didn't mention it in my comment,
> so I'll try sending them another.

I don't know all the details or the 'proper' way to handle what you are 
doing. But I wanted to say thanks for spending time on this.

-Jeremy

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Re: [gentoo-dev] IBM article of interest ?

[Philip Webb]

080717 Jeremy Olexa wrote:
> Philip Webb wrote:
>> [2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
>> '03 Jul 2008' has been added since I sent my comment to them yesterday !
>> However, the incorrect URL for Gentoo Technologies -- www.gentoo.org --
>> is still there, probably because I didn't mention it in my comment,
>> so I'll try sending them another.
> I don't know all the details or the 'proper' way to handle
> what you are doing. But I wanted to say thanks for spending time on this.

Thanks (big smile) !  It's good to have a bit of encouragement.

There's really no more to say here: my initial message was about IBM
& I reacted as might any casual reader of their page,
wondering why they were including 8-year-old information re its author.
I did not remember that it was also included in Gentoo docs, but now do.

It's clear to me by now that Gentoo does the correct & sensible thing:
reproduce the original as it was in 2000 with a prominent disclaimer.
It's IBM which is not doing that & needs prodding: I've sent another comment.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
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[gentoo-dev] Re: IBM article of interest ?

[Ryan Hill]

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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:20:15 -0400
Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> 080717 Jeremy Olexa wrote:
> > Philip Webb wrote:
> >> [2] http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-awk1.html
> >> '03 Jul 2008' has been added since I sent my comment to them
> >> yesterday ! However, the incorrect URL for Gentoo Technologies --
> >> www.gentoo.org -- is still there, probably because I didn't
> >> mention it in my comment, so I'll try sending them another.
> > I don't know all the details or the 'proper' way to handle
> > what you are doing. But I wanted to say thanks for spending time on
> > this.
> 
> Thanks (big smile) !  It's good to have a bit of encouragement.
> 
> There's really no more to say here: my initial message was about IBM
> & I reacted as might any casual reader of their page,
> wondering why they were including 8-year-old information re its
> author. I did not remember that it was also included in Gentoo docs,
> but now do.
> 
> It's clear to me by now that Gentoo does the correct & sensible thing:
> reproduce the original as it was in 2000 with a prominent disclaimer.
> It's IBM which is not doing that & needs prodding: I've sent another
> comment.

Are you high?  The article was written in 2000.  It says so at the
beginning.  The information in the article pertains to that time.  You
don't go updating every article you publish every time the author's
personal details change.

Please leave IBM alone.  They were nice enough to allow us to reprint
the content of several articles written by Daniel.


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