[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
2nd Thursday once a month), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every *re*submission to the council for review must
first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum) before
being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days before the
meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be notified at
least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Stephen Bennett]

On 01 Jul 2006 07:34:49
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

GLEP 42. Noone on the list raised any objections last time it was sent
out, so I'd like to send it off to the Council, so to speak.
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Saturday 01 July 2006 03:34, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
> 2nd Thursday once a month), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
> irc.freenode.net) !

we're pushing this to the 3rd due to it being a better time for some of us 
(blame me :P)
-mike

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[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Ferris McCormick]

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On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 05:30 +0000, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
> the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
> (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !
> 
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.
> 

This is delicate.  I have asked for two items on the agenda for the next
meeting, but so far they are on mail aliases only.  I can post them
here, and I want them public.  Please advise.

> Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
> must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
> before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
> before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
> notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.
> 
> For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Regards,
Ferris
-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

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2008-07-01 07:30:01 Mike Frysinger napisał(a):
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
> the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
> (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !
> 
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

Please vote on my proposition of default LDFLAGS if they aren't introduced
until Council meeting.

-- 
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul     , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's 
unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an 
agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com

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People who need to take action
==============================
Non-council members who need to do something.

araujo [Document of being an active developer]
vapier [Slacker arches]
antarus [as-needed by default]
cardoe [GLEP 56]
fmccor [Extent of Code of Conduct enforcement]


Updates to last month's topics
==============================

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080612-summary.txt


Document of being an active developer
-------------------------------------
Requested attendees: araujo

Preparation: araujo needs to post progress, an updated certificate and 
any new requests to the gentoo-council or gentoo-project list 4+ hours 
before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion 
expected.


Slacker arches
--------------
Preparation: vapier needs to send the post 4+ hours before the meeting. 
(Mike, is this ever going to happen?)

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion 
expected.


Can the council help fewer bugs get ignored by arm/sh/s390 teams? 
----------------------------------------------------------------- 
Preparation: Someone on an undermanned arch team needs to describe their 
workflow on-list 4+ hours before the meeting. Any volunteers?

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion 
expected.


New topics
==========

Appeals of spb, rbrown, & philantrop
------------------------------------
Preparation: Reach decisions.

Goal: Announce decisions no later than July 10 via personal emails and 
on-list to avoid disrupting the meeting.


Meeting frequency & time
------------------------
Do we want biweekly meetings that last one hour each?

Here are the time slots we found using whenisgood.net:
	2000-2100 UTC Thursday
	1600-1800 UTC Sunday (conflicts: flameeyes, jokey)

Preparation: Respond to the ongoing thread regarding your opinion on 
biweekly meetings.

Goal: Vote on time & frequency on the council alias no later than July 
10.


as-needed by default
--------------------
antarus requested that we vote on whether to add it to the default 
LDFLAGS.

Preparation: Antarus will post a deployment plan to -dev for discussion. 
We can vote on it on -council as soon as it solidifies. (Alec, please do 
this by July 17.)

Goal: Status check with antarus.


GLEP 54
-------
Preparation: Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "A few 
questions to our nominees" 4+ hours before the meeting.

Last month: 
	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml
	lu_zero: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_05614741b3942bfdfb21fd8ebb7955e0.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list 
no later than July 17.


GLEP 55
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "GLEP 55" 4+ hours 
before the meeting.

Last month:
	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list 
once we're ready.


GLEP 56
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "[GLEP56] USE flag 
descriptions in metadata" 4+ hours before the meeting. (Cardoe: Did the 
requested updates ever get made?)

Last month:
	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_54ee20d2b1d8122370afdd4b3d7aafc9.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list 
no later than July 17, if requested changes are made.


User Relations authority
------------------------
Ferris asks: Does userrel have the authority to enforce the Code of 
Conduct on users in the same way devrel does for developers?

Preparation: Donnie will start a thread on the -council list. Post your 
opinion there. If everyone's posted in advance of the meeting, status 
check at meeting to see who's ready to vote.

Goal: Reach a decision on-list no later than July 17.


Extent of Code of Conduct enforcement 
-------------------------------------
Ferris asks: Can people be entirely banned from Gentoo (mailing lists, 
IRC channels, etc.)? Who can do it, how's it work, under whose 
authority? Are there any prerequisites? He cites the corner case of 
refusal to accept a security patch.

Ferris, I couldn't make enough sense out of your long email to council@ 
to summarize any more of it reasonably, sorry. Please send a response to 
this that succinctly clarifies any part of your agenda proposals that I 
got wrong.

Preparation: Clarification from Ferris. After that, Donnie will start a 
thread on the -council list. Post your opinion there.

Goal: Reach a decision on-list no later than July 17.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis]

2008-07-09 10:40 Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul     , Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
>> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
>> Gentoo dev list to see.
>
> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's
> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an
> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

You forgot about voting on adding some flags to default LDFLAGS.
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57163/focus=57193
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57092/focus=57169

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Ferris McCormick]

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On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 01:40 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul     , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> > vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> > Gentoo dev list to see.
> 
> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's 
> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an 
> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

I'll try to clarify my second agenda item on an absolute ban.  Also I
might edit my private request to make it pure vanilla and send it out,
too, so that people may cross check my summary if they wish.  If people
want that, please respond saying so.

1.  Your summary in the agenda is a fair reading of my request.
However, I don't think it's realistic to expect a decision within a week
because I think instituting a policy and procedure allowing a complete
ban forever from Gentoo requires at the least a change to the Code of
Conduct and a review cycle for that.

2.  I can't spell out exactly what people are thinking of when
discussing absolute bans, because I get the sense that different people
have different ideas about just what we would mean by that.  So I think
the first step is for someone who advocates such a procedure needs to
spell out exactly what it would be and why we would do it and under
whose authority, etc.  As probably everyone knows, I am absolutely
opposed to any such thing, so I am not the person to do this.

3.  So, I don't think we can reach a decision on anything until we are
all clear on what we are deciding on.

4.  Here's what I think is meant by a complete ban.  *These are only my
own inferences from reading between the lines and trying to put
different comments together in some coherent fashion.*
     Under some rather unclear conditions, some combination of
     devrel/userrel/trustees/infra could decide to impose a complete,
     permanent ban on a member (user or, I suppose developer) of our
     community.  This would have the following effects:
       a.  The person could post to no gentoo mailing list;
       b.  The person could not post to gentoo bugzilla;
       c.  The person could not participate in #gentoo- IRC
            channels (although this runs into conflict with individual
            channel policy);
       d.   The person could not contribute to gentoo (hence my corner
            case of a security fix) except perhaps through a proxy;
       e.   (Perhaps any upstream projects in which the person banned
            would be notified of the ban??? --- I'm not sure).
Right now, I don't know anymore if what I just described is what is
being proposed or not.

5.  I am told that nothing is forever, and that if whatever problems
triggered such a ban were corrected, the ban might be lifted.  I note,
however, that since the banned person could not participate in Gentoo
things, as a practical matter we'd never know if anything was corrected
or not.  (Except through 3rd parties.)

6.  Presumably, all of this would be done in secret and whoever is being
hit by such a ban would have no opportunity to respond before the ban's
imposition.  I suppose there would be a right to appeal to council,
assuming council took no part in deciding on the ban.

7.  [Argument] I view this as a pretty major change in how Gentoo
operates.  So someone needs to clarify my inferences in paragraph 4, and
then we should think very carefully about it before allowing for any
such practice.

8.  [Argument]  I note that we are likely to institute some form of
possible moderation for the gentoo-dev mailing list (presumably based on
Code of Conduct violations), and if we do that, it effectively satisfies
the intent of any absolute ban, but is not nearly so traumatic to the
system.  I note that this is a minority view among those who have
discussed this.

Donnie,
  I don't know if that clarifies anything or just makes things more
confusing.  It's the best I can come up with.

Regards,
Ferris
-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On 13:07 Wed 09 Jul     , Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> You forgot about voting on adding some flags to default LDFLAGS.
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57163/focus=57193
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57092/focus=57169

There was no real debate about that (the only question was where), and 
Cardoe said this morning that he was just going to commit it. If people 
had any problems, they would've posted them to the thread.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Doug Goldstein]

Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 13:07 Wed 09 Jul     , Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
>   
>> You forgot about voting on adding some flags to default LDFLAGS.
>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57163/focus=57193
>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57092/focus=57169
>>     
>
> There was no real debate about that (the only question was where), and 
> Cardoe said this morning that he was just going to commit it. If people 
> had any problems, they would've posted them to the thread.
>
>   
Yep. I actually gave everyone a little bit longer to protest. It seemed 
like everyone was in favor of this move but no one made the commit. It 
now exists in profiles/default/linux/make.defaults. I created a tracker 
for any issues that crop up. [1]

[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=231310
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Ryan Hill]

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On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:40:13 -0700
Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Slacker arches
> --------------
> Preparation: vapier needs to send the post 4+ hours before the
> meeting. (Mike, is this ever going to happen?)

I believe he's out of the country until August.


-- 
gcc-porting,                                      by design, by neglect
treecleaner,                              for a fact or just for effect
wxwidgets @ gentoo     EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Donnie Berkholz]

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On 01:40 Wed 09 Jul     , Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul     , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> > vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> > Gentoo dev list to see.
> 
> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's 
> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an 
> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

Here are the items that will actually come up during the meeting instead 
of the overall list of ongoing things including list discussions.

Council members: Remember to post to the GLEP threads if you have 
anything new to say.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com

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as-needed by default
--------------------
antarus requested that we vote on whether to add it to the default 
LDFLAGS.

Preparation: Antarus will post a deployment plan to -dev for discussion. 
We can vote on it on -council as soon as it solidifies. (Alec, please do 
this by July 17.)

Goal: Status check with antarus.


GLEP 54
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "A few questions to 
our nominees" 4+ hours before the meeting.

Last month: 
	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml
	lu_zero: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_05614741b3942bfdfb21fd8ebb7955e0.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list 
no later than July 17.


GLEP 55
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "GLEP 55" 4+ hours 
before the meeting.

Last month:
	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list 
once we're ready.


GLEP 56
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "[GLEP56] USE flag 
descriptions in metadata" 4+ hours before the meeting. (Cardoe: Did the 
requested updates ever get made?)

Last month:
	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_54ee20d2b1d8122370afdd4b3d7aafc9.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list 
no later than July 17, if requested changes are made.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Alec Warner]

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 01:40 Wed 09 Jul     , Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul     , Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
>> > vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
>> > Gentoo dev list to see.
>>
>> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's
>> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an
>> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.
>
> Here are the items that will actually come up during the meeting instead
> of the overall list of ongoing things including list discussions.

Drop me; I haven't written anything for --as-needed.

-Alec

>
> Council members: Remember to post to the GLEP threads if you have
> anything new to say.
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Donnie
>
> Donnie Berkholz
> Developer, Gentoo Linux
> Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com
>
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Doug Goldstein]

Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 01:40 Wed 09 Jul     , Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>   
>> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul     , Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>     
>>> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
>>> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
>>> Gentoo dev list to see.
>>>       
>> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's 
>> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an 
>> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.
>>     
>
> Here are the items that will actually come up during the meeting instead 
> of the overall list of ongoing things including list discussions.
>
> Council members: Remember to post to the GLEP threads if you have 
> anything new to say.
>
>   
[GLEP56]

I've committed the changes that I made as a result of the feedback 
received. You can see the diff [1] or view the full source [2] or see 
the pretty HTML [3].

Quick highlight of changes:

- All PMS references are gone
  - restrict purely refers to the Gentoo Developer Handbook
  - CP/CPV refers to the Gentoo Developer Manual
- Added backwards compatibility section to detail how we're going to 
maintain compatible.
- No reference to default language, leaving that to the Gentoo Developer 
Handbook


[1] 
http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/glep/glep-0056.txt?r1=1.1&r2=1.2

[2] 
http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/glep/glep-0056.txt?rev=1.2&view=markup

[3] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0056.html
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Here are quick updates on the topics we didn't discuss in detail during 
the council meeting.

On 01:40 Wed 09 Jul     , Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Appeals of spb, rbrown, & philantrop

We are actively discussing the appeals and will get decisions out ASAP.

> Meeting frequency & time

We're moving to shorter biweekly meetings. The next one will be July 24.

> User Relations authority

Discussion is happening on gentoo-council.

> Extent of Code of Conduct enforcement 

I will post this to gentoo-council tomorrow. I haven't had a chance yet 
to put together a useful summary post for starting the thread.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com

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[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Mike Frysinger]

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here's an item that should be relatively quick to address: fix the typo in 
GLEP 39 where this line is missing (it's been in the council homepage 
forever):
	Only Gentoo developers may be nominated

note that previous councils already decided that they are allowed to modify 
GLEP 39 in place with the normal council voting procedure and if they notify 
the mailing lists with exact changes (see 20070208 summary for an example).
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Tobias Scherbaum]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> here's an item that should be relatively quick to address: fix the typo in 
> GLEP 39 where this line is missing (it's been in the council homepage 
> forever):
> 	Only Gentoo developers may be nominated

I'd like to add that requirement for proxies as well. Varied
interpretations of common sense seems to make that necessary.

- Tobias

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Thursday 02 July 2009 11:02:45 Tobias Scherbaum wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > here's an item that should be relatively quick to address: fix the typo
> > in GLEP 39 where this line is missing (it's been in the council homepage
> > forever):
> > 	Only Gentoo developers may be nominated
>
> I'd like to add that requirement for proxies as well. Varied
> interpretations of common sense seems to make that necessary.

i'd keep them as sep topics as the first should go through quickly without 
discussion.  the latter i'm not terribly sold on -- the understanding is that 
a council member should have the good sense to only pick an appropriate proxy.  
the definition of "appropriate" is of course up for grabs.  ignoring the 
tools, there is the possibility of bringing non-devs further into the Gentoo 
fold (assuming the proxy is well versed in the topics at hand and not just 
"another body") ...

then again, looking at the 4 year history, this has never happened, so it's 
doubtful it will happen.  guess the proposal is fine.
-mike

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