From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K2FjJ-0004ut-L7 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 01:17:57 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C3C4E03F2; Sat, 31 May 2008 01:17:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59F6E03F3 for ; Sat, 31 May 2008 01:17:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id z27so37610ugc.49 for ; Fri, 30 May 2008 18:17:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type; bh=B010yzitIxaPsJd8YQ9WtBbeBqsY/lb80+f1MCSrY/8=; b=O50MIa+QopSpUE6RHw2cQ5aLinuZYtiJgALqbYkkT9DdpH7yUFR/tMLpmbYbimun1x R/2GN2OCLIdT0mM57+NHkbt5AtR6h76oBf9yffqBoisREIGos9xlU/lCheJWEp/iCOtE ZzV7RbXzz48+rt7xufhj0LVLnGGRCaN9fTjrA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; b=iIiAK7x7ow+mnqa3ScST40iROqKHfNvm34C0Xmwq3APTcQDGUTfsqfNcGBKyClm+Il Ype44VxB01W6FrQmz4t0ro575giRQSpfM4WEEvFF6EG0OoZrF25InrAY+ELHTQm/1aLr hsdXr/MsiSHBT1RlfLJqzBmUJxjW2xNmT2GrQ= Received: by 10.66.248.5 with SMTP id v5mr291352ugh.14.1212196674782; Fri, 30 May 2008 18:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snowcone ( [213.121.151.206]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k1sm686672ugf.5.2008.05.30.18.17.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 30 May 2008 18:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 02:17:48 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: --as-needed to default LDFLAGS (Was: RFC: Should preserve-libs be enabled by default?) Message-ID: <20080531021748.4dd0b78e@snowcone> In-Reply-To: <4840A3EE.30708@gentoo.org> References: <20080529011316.54f0f1f6@sheridan.genone.homeip.net> <200805301657.46861.levertond@googlemail.com> <200805301743.15555.levertond@googlemail.com> <484051DC.6090409@gentoo.org> <20080530202034.1b147946@snowcone> <1212183082.13925.2.camel@localhost> <20080530223700.12cd7bcd@snowcone> <1212184064.13925.15.camel@localhost> <20080530225351.3fc023cb@snowcone> <20080530220743.GH17201@comet> <20080530231429.24970398@snowcone> <48408A36.2070608@gentoo.org> <20080531002644.41d9b7bf@snowcone> <484093C5.90902@gentoo.org> <20080531010259.52b8c105@snowcone> <4840990B.9040909@gentoo.org> <20080531013016.4aceedbb@snowcone> <4840A3EE.30708@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/HLrAzD+u2_gD37CL3v_Yh2I"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Archives-Salt: 1eef046e-3b52-439d-b156-ad557ece8950 X-Archives-Hash: 1141dfbc4d0d8bd6c448af2d8701e60d --Sig_/HLrAzD+u2_gD37CL3v_Yh2I Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 May 2008 03:03:42 +0200 Luca Barbato wrote: > Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > > Which is where the design flaw is -- as-needed incorrectly assumes > > that the only type of dependency between shared objects is a name > > dependency. This isn't true with C++ static initialisers. >=20 > I don't see why should be different than abusing .init in any other=20 > language that let you do (ok, C, C++, asm mostly). In C++ it's not abuse. It's using the language as specified and designed. > > Unfortunately, the ricers shoving as-needed upon everyone aren't > > smart >=20 > Asking people to not do stuff that is unportable (Solaris and PE > based systems) seems sensible and not ricing. Not where "unportable" means "doesn't work on systems that fail to correctly implement widely used international standards" it doesn't. You might as well say "you shouldn't use lchown() because BSD 2 doesn't support it". > > enough to fix libtool, which is the real problem here, so they go > > for the thing they think they understand instead, without thinking > > the implications through -- as-needed, like fast-math, is for > > programs explicitly designed for it, not for universal use. >=20 > Differently -ffast-math is setting up a slightly different behavior > than the usual standard, --as-needed enforce what is the default > standard in determined architectures, thus the exception and the > universality are quite reverted. Both are standard-violating options that are useful for applications designed to work with them explicitly. > We already started to think how to fix libtool, or at least make it > less annoying, removing .la files when they are not necessary. Again, that's silly ricing. Saving a few kBytes is irrelevant. Instead, you should be focusing your efforts upon something that will really make a difference, like getting something based upon this into upstream: http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/extracted/debian/libt/libtool/1.9+2005= 1221-1/link_all_deplibs.dpatch --=20 Ciaran McCreesh --Sig_/HLrAzD+u2_gD37CL3v_Yh2I Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkhApz8ACgkQ96zL6DUtXhFY7ACgteWHiE2K3XimL8F1YFs5Z4HE bmAAnjcAQynndp92Eq34Bzis5F/U77ts =tEqP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/HLrAzD+u2_gD37CL3v_Yh2I-- -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list