Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: --as-needed to default LDFLAGS (Was: RFC: Should preserve-libs be enabled by default?)

[Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com>]

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On Sat, 31 May 2008 03:03:42 +0200
Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > Which is where the design flaw is -- as-needed incorrectly assumes
> > that the only type of dependency between shared objects is a name
> > dependency. This isn't true with C++ static initialisers.
> 
> I don't see why should be different than abusing .init in any other 
> language that let you do (ok, C, C++, asm mostly).

In C++ it's not abuse. It's using the language as specified and
designed.

> > Unfortunately, the ricers shoving as-needed upon everyone aren't
> > smart
> 
> Asking people to not do stuff that is unportable (Solaris and PE
> based systems) seems sensible and not ricing.

Not where "unportable" means "doesn't work on systems that fail to
correctly implement widely used international standards" it doesn't.

You might as well say "you shouldn't use lchown() because BSD 2 doesn't
support it".

> > enough to fix libtool, which is the real problem here, so they go
> > for the thing they think they understand instead, without thinking
> > the implications through -- as-needed, like fast-math, is for
> > programs explicitly designed for it, not for universal use.
> 
> Differently -ffast-math is setting up a slightly different behavior
> than the usual standard, --as-needed enforce what is the default
> standard in determined architectures, thus the exception and the
> universality are quite reverted.

Both are standard-violating options that are useful for applications
designed to work with them explicitly.

> We already started to think how to fix libtool, or at least make it
> less annoying, removing .la files when they are not necessary.

Again, that's silly ricing. Saving a few kBytes is irrelevant. Instead,
you should be focusing your efforts upon something that will really
make a difference, like getting something based upon this into upstream:

http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/extracted/debian/libt/libtool/1.9+20051221-1/link_all_deplibs.dpatch

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

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