From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1I9oat-000285-Ah for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:51:59 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l6EKoiCA032288; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:50:44 GMT Received: from mail.genone.homeip.net (dslc-082-082-175-015.pools.arcor-ip.net [82.82.175.15]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l6EKlUGG027435 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:47:30 GMT Received: by mail.genone.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 460) id B8194281C4; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:46:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8-gr0-genone_0.7 (2007-02-13) on lyta.genone.homeip.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_50 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8-gr0-genone_0.7 Received: from sheridan (sheridan [192.168.0.40]) by mail.genone.homeip.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A7C77280F8 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:46:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:46:43 +0200 From: Marius Mauch To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: ML changes Message-Id: <20070714224643.b5d2c4c2.genone@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4697CE3F.9000308@gentoo.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.1 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-mingw32) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 5a02c1d4-c767-46b0-92f5-911f40186f1f X-Archives-Hash: 5b659f41dedcb3b5b1c2904016b16d7f On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:16:36 -0600 Ryan Hill wrote: > Christina Fullam wrote: > > I think everyone is overlooking the part included previously: > > "An additional method discussed was to have all non-dev emails on a > > timeout, pick a number of hours, and then the email if not moderated > > would be released. (non-dev sends his email, time period expires > > and no one booted it, so the email rolls through)" > > > > This means that non-dev emails will still be sent to the list, just > > at a delay. This same delay can and will be exercised against > > developers if the developer demonstrates a justification for it. > > This also means that non-dev input will be accepted and viewed as it > > always has, the only change is that there is a delay. > > Then what, exactly, is the damned point? The problem this is > supposedly intended to solve is that -dev is too high-volume. This > solution requires people to actually put MORE effort into reading > -dev than they previously did. No one is going to actually do any > monitoring, so all you've done is made posts from non-dev accounts > time delayed. Why? Well, I orignally proposed this as a reaction to the "beejay incident", where a single mail caused complete havoc on this list. I think everyone would agree that that specific mail should never have been posted, as it's purpose was obvious to create trouble, and unfortunately some people couldn't resist to reply. I don't really like the idea (and only proposed it as an alternative to splitting the list into -dev and -dev-announce), but as long as people can't control themselves to ignore such posts (and I don't see that changing ever) we need a way to stop them to prevent further damage. Yes, that incident was an extreme exception, but I really don't want to see something like that ever happen again, and reactionary methods simply don't work IMHO. Just for completeness: My original proposal included delaying all posts and a special moderation group, only later the idea of separate policies for dev and non-dev mails was brought up. And to repeat: It was meant as an alternative to splitting the list into an informational and a discussion list (which is different than the -project idea). Marius PS: In case you're looking for a reference, this was on -core on June 7th. -- Marius Mauch -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list