[gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your one-day friendly reminder !  The monthly Gentoo Council
meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net.  See the
channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).

If you're supposed to show up, please show up.  If you're not supposed
to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
for you.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your one-day friendly reminder !  The monthly Gentoo Council
meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net.  See the
channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).

If you're supposed to show up, please show up.  If you're not supposed
to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
for you.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Donnie Berkholz]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 742 bytes --]

On 03:04 Wed 07 May     , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your one-day friendly reminder !  The monthly Gentoo Council
> meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net.  See the
> channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).
> 
> If you're supposed to show up, please show up.  If you're not supposed
> to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
> for you.
> 
> For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Here's the suggested agenda. Please feel free to respond to some of the 
commentary within, because it's hard for me to usefully summarize a 
topic's background in an entirely objective manner.

Thanks,
Donnie

[-- Attachment #2: 20080508-summary.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 3658 bytes --]

Requested attendees
===================

Active developer: araujo, anyone who could talk about how to get this 
	script running on Gentoo infra
PMS: ciaranm, pkgcore dev, portage dev, any other tools that care about 
	versions
Enforced retirement: fmccor, musikc
	musikc has already informed us that she can't make it until an hour 
	later, so this is the final topic.

New process
===========

The last few meetings have dragged out for hours unnecessarily. This 
time, let's return to moderating the channel. Let's try moderating 
during discussion of each topic, then temporarily opening the floor for 
that topic before a vote so anyone can contribute.


Updates to last month's topics
==============================

	http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080410-summary.txt

	Document of being an active developer
	-------------------------------------
	Last month:
		No updates
	Updates:
		araujo made http://dev.gentoo.org/~araujo/gcert1.pdf in Scribus. 
		He'd like to ask for approval of this design and discuss the 
		script, in particular its infrastructure requirements.

	Slacker arches
	--------------
	4 months ago:
		vapier will work on rich0's suggestion and repost it for 
		discussion on -dev ML
	2 months ago:
		vapier said he was going to work on it that weekend.
	Last month:
		No updates
	Updates:


New topics
==========

	When are ChangeLog entries required?
	------------------------------------
	This question mainly relates to arch stabilizations.


	Can the council help fewer bugs get ignored by arm/sh/s390 teams?
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	The work happens, but Mart says it's not communicated to anyone and 
	has no relationship to whether bugs are open.


	PMS: Are versions allowed to have more than 8 digits?
	-----------------------------------------------------
	http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_db2f5c09c2c0c8b042ca3d0dcec7cdaf.xml
	https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=188449

	What do various PMs/tools support?


	Enforced retirement
	-------------------

		What was the council's role in the recent enforced retirement of 
		3 developers?
		----------------------------------------------------------------
		The council received numerous complaints, agreed that the devrel 
		lead could take action and discussed the problems with her. The 
		council did not "force" her to claim its actions were hers.


		Why does the council permit such actions in apparent violation of 
		Gentoo's policy of openness?
		-----------------------------------------------------------------
		http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/#doc_chap2 says this:

		"Every aspect of Gentoo is and remains open. Gentoo does not 
		benefit from hiding any of its development processes (whether it 
		is source code or documentation, decisions or discussions, 
		coordination or management)."

		Chris (wolf) noted that it does specifically refer to 
		development process. Devrel's current process document
		<http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/policy.xml> also makes 
		specific note of the lack of transparency, and disciplinary 
		actions have historically been discussed in a closed 
		environment, in part because of the potential harmful effects of 
		the discussions if action is not taken.


		What is the council's role in an appeal?
		----------------------------------------
		How should we proceed with the current appeals?

		If the council is directly involved in disciplinary action, 
		Ferris requests that we amend GLEP 39 to explain how the council 
		handles appeals and whether the council can take direct 
		disciplinary action.


	Open floor
	----------

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Brian Harring]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 525 bytes --]

On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 02:03:45AM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Requested attendees
> ===================
> 
> PMS: ciaranm, pkgcore dev, portage dev, any other tools that care about 
> 	versions

Might I suggest that if PMS is going to be discussed, a copy of 
PMS.pdf actually be available somewhere?  Preferably with the 
kdebuild-1 crap stripped out...

Definitely would help considering the damned thing has yet to build on 
my system (longterm complaints re: missing fixme.sty during make).

~harring

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 590 bytes --]

On Thu, 8 May 2008 03:57:16 -0700
Brian Harring <ferringb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 02:03:45AM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > Requested attendees
> > ===================
> > 
> > PMS: ciaranm, pkgcore dev, portage dev, any other tools that care
> > about versions
> 
> Might I suggest that if PMS is going to be discussed, a copy of 
> PMS.pdf actually be available somewhere?  Preferably with the 
> kdebuild-1 crap stripped out...

Might I suggest that you read the agenda rather than going completely
off topic like last time?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Brian Harring]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1607 bytes --]

On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:01:19PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 8 May 2008 03:57:16 -0700
> Brian Harring <ferringb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 02:03:45AM -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > > Requested attendees
> > > ===================
> > > 
> > > PMS: ciaranm, pkgcore dev, portage dev, any other tools that care
> > > about versions
> > 
> > Might I suggest that if PMS is going to be discussed, a copy of 
> > PMS.pdf actually be available somewhere?  Preferably with the 
> > kdebuild-1 crap stripped out...
> 
> Might I suggest that you read the agenda rather than going completely
> off topic like last time?

If PMS is going to be discussed in some form, it's a fair request that 
folks have an easily readable version.

Insane enough, loosening the 8 digit version restriction can have 
other implications- very least, verifying that bash 3.0 is when [[ ]] 
support was introduced since [ ] breaks down for long long from a 
quick look.  That's off the top of the head- could be more.  Actually 
having a pdf to read would make that a helluva lot easier too.

Course, it's way more fun to just bitch at me then build a pdf so 
others can look at the current spec for the discussion at hand (bugs 
are one thing, looking at the actual spec is another).

One thing I wouldn't mind the council discussing is whether or not the 
recent behaviour re: pms on -dev is acceptable for running a project- 
it's not exactly engendering cooperation.  Feel free to delay that 
till the next month, or ignore it (y'alls court after all).

~brian

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 316 bytes --]

On Thu, 8 May 2008 04:15:10 -0700
Brian Harring <ferringb@gmail.com> wrote:
> If PMS is going to be discussed in some form, it's a fair request
> that folks have an easily readable version.

The relevant sentence was provided. Had you bothered to read the
agenda, you would know this.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Santiago M. Mola]

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Brian Harring <ferringb@gmail.com> wrote:
>  If PMS is going to be discussed in some form, it's a fair request that
>  folks have an easily readable version.

Here you have latest pms revision built without kdebuild-1 spec:
http://dev.gentoo.org/~coldwind/pms.pdf

It's not that hard to extract the relevant paragraph from the tex
sources, though.

Regards,
-- 
Santiago M. Mola
Jabber ID: cooldwind@gmail.com
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Brian Harring]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 774 bytes --]

On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 01:44:53PM +0200, Santiago M. Mola wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Brian Harring <ferringb@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  If PMS is going to be discussed in some form, it's a fair request that
> >  folks have an easily readable version.
> 
> Here you have latest pms revision built without kdebuild-1 spec:
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~coldwind/pms.pdf
> 
> It's not that hard to extract the relevant paragraph from the tex
> sources, though.

Already did (hence the bash 3.0 comment), that said having a live copy 
of the doc for ebuild devs to review, or portage tree tool developers 
to review isn't exactly a bad idea.

It's a helluva lot simpler then digging through a mishmash of tex 
files also ;)

Thanks meanwhile,
~harring

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Brian Harring]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 789 bytes --]

On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 12:23:39PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 8 May 2008 04:15:10 -0700
> Brian Harring <ferringb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If PMS is going to be discussed in some form, it's a fair request
> > that folks have an easily readable version.
> 
> The relevant sentence was provided. Had you bothered to read the
> agenda, you would know this.

Council: if you wouldn't mind and have time, kindly extend the 
discussion of PMS beyond version components (which I already clarified 
where the potential issue is) to the future of it, current behaviour 
from (frankly) the sole developer of it, how involved other package 
managers (say... portage, the biggest out there) are in the process.  

It's frankly a discussion long overdue.

Cheers.
~harring

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Santiago M. Mola]

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Brian Harring <ferringb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 01:44:53PM +0200, Santiago M. Mola wrote:
>  >
>  > Here you have latest pms revision built without kdebuild-1 spec:
>  > http://dev.gentoo.org/~coldwind/pms.pdf
>  >
>
>  Already did (hence the bash 3.0 comment), that said having a live copy
>  of the doc for ebuild devs to review, or portage tree tool developers
>  to review isn't exactly a bad idea.
>

I've updated it now to:
http://dev.gentoo.org/~coldwind/pms.pdf
http://dev.gentoo.org/~coldwind/pms-without-kdebuild.pdf

Someone may want to automate it. At the moment, ping me if you want me
to update them.

Regards,
-- 
Santiago M. Mola
Jabber ID: cooldwind@gmail.com
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for May

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your one-day friendly reminder !  The monthly Gentoo Council
meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net.  See the
channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).

If you're supposed to show up, please show up.  If you're not supposed
to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
for you.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/