[gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[Marius Mauch]

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Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with the recent disussion about he
paludis news item except that it was used as testcase.

Apparently the `eselect news` module (which is the suggested
default news reader) requires paludis to be installed and configured, a
quick test resulted in errors when trying with
a) paludis not installed
b) paludis installed but not configured
and the code doesn't seem to have any support for portage at this time
(checked version was eselect-1.0.9).

This is reported as bug 177325.
Until that is fixed I'd say that the glep 42 news facilities may not
be used in repositories that are primarily used by portage users (and
that includes gentoo-x86). Don't know if the existing item should be
allowed as an exception due to the intended audience or not.

Marius

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[Marius Mauch]

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On Sun, 6 May 2007 15:40:23 +0200
Marius Mauch <genone@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with the recent disussion about he
> paludis news item except that it was used as testcase.
> 
> Apparently the `eselect news` module (which is the suggested
> default news reader) requires paludis to be installed and configured,
> a quick test resulted in errors when trying with
> a) paludis not installed
> b) paludis installed but not configured
> and the code doesn't seem to have any support for portage at this time
> (checked version was eselect-1.0.9).
> 
> This is reported as bug 177325.
> Until that is fixed I'd say that the glep 42 news facilities may not
> be used in repositories that are primarily used by portage users (and
> that includes gentoo-x86). Don't know if the existing item should be
> allowed as an exception due to the intended audience or not.

Ok, spb just let me know that the eselect new module is shipped as part
of paludis, so that dependency is somewhat logical (and the bug
therefore being invalid).
Still the main problem remains that the suggested default reader is not
available for portage users.

Marius

-- 
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In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

On Sunday 06 of May 2007 15:40:23 Marius Mauch wrote:
> Apparently the `eselect news` module (which is the suggested
> default news reader) requires paludis to be installed and configured, a
> quick test resulted in errors when trying with
> a) paludis not installed
> b) paludis installed but not configured
> and the code doesn't seem to have any support for portage at this time
> (checked version was eselect-1.0.9).
Well it's part of Paludis... 
Tbh, I expected a little more from portage support for news items than 
pointing to eselect module made for paludis.

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Piotr Jaroszyński
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[Marius Mauch]

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On Sun, 6 May 2007 16:00:29 +0200
Piotr Jaroszyński <peper@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sunday 06 of May 2007 15:40:23 Marius Mauch wrote:
> > Apparently the `eselect news` module (which is the suggested
> > default news reader) requires paludis to be installed and
> > configured, a quick test resulted in errors when trying with
> > a) paludis not installed
> > b) paludis installed but not configured
> > and the code doesn't seem to have any support for portage at this
> > time (checked version was eselect-1.0.9).
> Well it's part of Paludis... 
> Tbh, I expected a little more from portage support for news items
> than pointing to eselect module made for paludis.

Well, the default is specified by the glep and I expected it to be part
of eselect (which is why I didn't check at first what package installed
it), especially given that several eselect authors are also paludis
devs.
And shipping another module (there appears to be one in svn[1]) for
portage would mean either to use a different name (which sucks
UI-wise IMHO) or make paludis and portage block each other (which I
think everyone will agree is the worst solution).

But as long as this problem persists we cannot issue more news items
for the gentoo-x86 repository. Now what solutions are there:

a) add portage support to the paludis news.eselect and move it into the
main eselect package (or make a standalone package)
b) let portage install its own module (sucks for reasons given above)
c) ignore the glep and write a non-eselect reader app to be
installed/depended on by portage and used by portage whenever a default
is required

Out of those a) is IMO preferrably unless someone can come up with a
better solution.

Btw, if you knew about this issue before (that's how your statement
above sounds to me) then I'm somewhat irritated that you didn't consider
it worth mentioning when you first brought the topic up.

Marius

[1]
http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/portage/private/antarus/glep42/eselect/

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In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

On Sunday 06 of May 2007 16:49:37 Marius Mauch wrote:
> Out of those a) is IMO preferrably unless someone can come up with a
> better solution.
At first glance(I don't know how eselect modules work internally yet) a) is 
cool and should be easy, just merge these two eselect modules and probably 
add an option to choose "backend" (portage or paludis).

> Btw, if you knew about this issue before (that's how your statement
> above sounds to me) then I'm somewhat irritated that you didn't consider
> it worth mentioning when you first brought the topic up.
I have learned about that only after reading the bug you filled. Earlier I 
only had known that "portage has support for news items".

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sun, 6 May 2007 15:40:23 +0200
Marius Mauch <genone@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Apparently the `eselect news` module (which is the suggested
> default news reader) requires paludis to be installed and configured,
> a quick test resulted in errors when trying with
> a) paludis not installed
> b) paludis installed but not configured

Sounds like you forgot USE=portage when installing Paludis. There's an
at least reasonable chance it can use your Portage configuration if you
aren't doing anything weird.

> Until that is fixed I'd say that the glep 42 news facilities may not
> be used in repositories that are primarily used by portage users (and
> that includes gentoo-x86).

Why make everyone else suffer? It's not like having the news items
there breaks Portage...

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why Glep42 news can't be used yet

[Marius Mauch]

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On Sun, 6 May 2007 16:44:23 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@ciaranm.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 6 May 2007 15:40:23 +0200
> Marius Mauch <genone@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Apparently the `eselect news` module (which is the suggested
> > default news reader) requires paludis to be installed and
> > configured, a quick test resulted in errors when trying with
> > a) paludis not installed
> > b) paludis installed but not configured
> 
> Sounds like you forgot USE=portage when installing Paludis. There's an
> at least reasonable chance it can use your Portage configuration if
> you aren't doing anything weird.

Yeah, as I didn't intend to actually use paludis, so that's a rather
special use case that doesn't need further action (only mentioned it
due to the misassumption of news.eselect being part of eselect already)

> > Until that is fixed I'd say that the glep 42 news facilities may not
> > be used in repositories that are primarily used by portage users
> > (and that includes gentoo-x86).
> 
> Why make everyone else suffer? It's not like having the news items
> there breaks Portage...

Well, the whole decision process was based on the assumption that
portage (even if it's just trunk) has proper support for glep 42, and
now it turns out that assumption was incorrect. So before we puruse in
using this facility even more we should correct that mistake and have
at least an agreed implementation plan and someone dedicated to do the
relevant work (instead of making more implicit assumptions that
someone will just do it in time eventually).
If all works out well it might even be done in a few hours, so it
wouldn't be a big problem. If it takes more than a few days we know
something went wrong and can do whatever is necessary to correct it.

Marius

-- 
Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub

In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.

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