[gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Steve Dibb]

The idea came up a few months ago about creating a 'religion' herd.  I finally 
got around to following through, and with robbat2's help, created the 'theology' 
herd.

The basic description is to take care of packages relating to religion, 
genealogy and humanities in general.

Anyone is of course welcome to join and help out taking care of the packages 
we'll maintain (I'll update metadata shortly), just add yourself to herds.xml

Thanks all

Steve
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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Josh Sled]

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On Thu, 2007-04-26 at 20:03 -0600, Steve Dibb wrote:
> The idea came up a few months ago about creating a 'religion' herd.  I finally 
> got around to following through, and with robbat2's help, created the 'theology' 
> herd.
> 
> The basic description is to take care of packages relating to religion, 
> genealogy and humanities in general.

If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?

E.g., I don't know what genealogy has to do with theology, but I do see
that both relate to the human condition.

-- 
...jsled
http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled;b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}

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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Andrej Kacian]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:11:26 -0400
Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org> wrote:

> E.g., I don't know what genealogy has to do with theology, but I do see
> that both relate to the human condition.

The fact that Adam and Eve will be found at the beginning of every genealogy
graph.

Just kidding, just kidding! (/me runs away, haunted by Darwin's ghost).

-- 
Andrej

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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:11:26 -0400
Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org> wrote:

> If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?
> 
> E.g., I don't know what genealogy has to do with theology, but I do
> see that both relate to the human condition.

It's a very good question, it was posed at the time, it was never
answered and at last we can now say it was almost completely ignored.

I shall contemplate fiercely on building my own herd of nightly
bloodsuckers, zombies and cannibals. I don't know whether to call it
'postnuclear-vampirism' or just plain 'satanism' yet.


Kind regards,
     JeR
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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Steffen Brumm]

Am Freitag, 27. April 2007 06:34:16 schrieb Andrej Kacian:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:11:26 -0400
>
> Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org> wrote:
> > E.g., I don't know what genealogy has to do with theology, but I do see
> > that both relate to the human condition.
>
> The fact that Adam and Eve will be found at the beginning of every
> genealogy graph.
>
> Just kidding, just kidding! (/me runs away, haunted by Darwin's ghost).
>
> --
> Andrej

and darwin is satan, other beliefs than christianity - death penalty, fight 
the sciences, womans have to go behind the cooker or into the open flame, 
only conservapedia is real,...

Steffen
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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Matti Bickel]

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Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I shall contemplate fiercely on building my own herd of nightly
> bloodsuckers, zombies and cannibals. I don't know whether to call it
> 'postnuclear-vampirism' or just plain 'satanism' yet.

I'm interested. Will you bring back xmms? Will your program include
last-rites for packages you "convert" over from maintainer-needed?

Oh, and about that "theology" herd - i do find 'theology' a kinda narrow
naming, but that's just me.
-- 
Regards, Matti Bickel
Encrypted/Signed Email preferred

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[PROCTORS] Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 07:54:00AM +0200, Steffen Brumm wrote:
> and darwin is satan, other beliefs than christianity - death penalty, fight 
> the sciences, womans have to go behind the cooker or into the open flame, 
> only conservapedia is real,...

This certainly is an interesting first post to the Gentoo development
list, not sure if it's pure trolling or just a joke gone bad.
In any way, this is not exactly Gentoo development related and not
really CoC [1] compliant. Please read the CoC before posting again.

Everyone else, please don't reply to this subthread as well for the
same reasons.

cheers,
	Wernfried

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/coc.xml

-- 
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Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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[gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Duncan]

Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> posted
20070427072418.6ae6bd78@epia.jer-c2.orkz.net, excerpted below, on  Fri, 27
Apr 2007 07:24:18 +0200:

> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:11:26 -0400
> Josh Sled <jsled@asynchronous.org> wrote:
> 
>> If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?
>> 
>> E.g., I don't know what genealogy has to do with theology, but I do see
>> that both relate to the human condition.
> 
> It's a very good question, it was posed at the time, it was never
> answered and at last we can now say it was almost completely ignored.

I (and I expect others who know) didn't answer this before, as it would 
have been too easy to start an OT subthread I didn't want to start, but I 
trust everyone minding the CoC will prevent that from occurring now.

Briefly (and intended to be neutrally), the Latter Day Saints, commonly 
known as the Mormons (maybe other groups as well??), have a religious 
interest in genealogy, so having it in the religion/theology herd would 
make sense to them.  That should answer the question, and give a place to 
start for those interested in looking it up.

However, I agree the sciences or a general humanities herd will make more 
sense to most folks.  I don't feel strongly enough about it to be worth 
arguing a maintainer's choice of herd for their packages, however.  After 
all, they're the ones taking responsibility for it in the tree, 
regardless of the herd it's in, and if it's more convenient for them in a 
theology herd, why should it be a problem for those not interested in the 
package?  It might raise a few eyebrows here or there, but if it's being 
well maintained, there are more critical things to argue about.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Alexandre Buisse]

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On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 11:25:01 +0200, Duncan wrote:
> > It's a very good question, it was posed at the time, it was never
> > answered and at last we can now say it was almost completely ignored.
> 
> I (and I expect others who know) didn't answer this before, as it would 
> have been too easy to start an OT subthread I didn't want to start, but I 
> trust everyone minding the CoC will prevent that from occurring now.
> 
> Briefly (and intended to be neutrally), the Latter Day Saints, commonly 
> known as the Mormons (maybe other groups as well??), have a religious 
> interest in genealogy, so having it in the religion/theology herd would 
> make sense to them.  That should answer the question, and give a place to 
> start for those interested in looking it up.

And a sect from the remote regions of Lapland believes that haskell is
a godsend and adore the ghc source code as their Holy Scripture, should
we move the haskell herd to theology as well?

 
> However, I agree the sciences or a general humanities herd will make more 
> sense to most folks.  I don't feel strongly enough about it to be worth 
> arguing a maintainer's choice of herd for their packages, however.  After 
> all, they're the ones taking responsibility for it in the tree, 
> regardless of the herd it's in, and if it's more convenient for them in a 
> theology herd, why should it be a problem for those not interested in the 
> package?  It might raise a few eyebrows here or there, but if it's being 
> well maintained, there are more critical things to argue about.

Sure, there are more critical things out there, but why should people,
on such a critical subject, chose to label packages that have nothing to
do with religion with a "theology" stamp?

/Alexandre
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Hi, I'm a .signature virus! Please copy me in your ~/.signature.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Steffen Brumm]

>... and if it's more convenient for them in a
> theology herd, why should it be a problem for those not interested in the
> package?  It might raise a few eyebrows here or there, but if it's being
> well maintained, 
  
that is the problem, because what is theology? only christianity, only islam?
i would prefer to name it religions, so everyone who owns a belief(buddhism, 
wicca, heathen,... TOO) can place his/her software.


> there are more critical things to argue about. 
YES!!


Steffen
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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Steve Dibb]

Josh Sled wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-04-26 at 20:03 -0600, Steve Dibb wrote:
>> The idea came up a few months ago about creating a 'religion' herd.  I finally 
>> got around to following through, and with robbat2's help, created the 'theology' 
>> herd.
>>
>> The basic description is to take care of packages relating to religion, 
>> genealogy and humanities in general.
> 
> If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?

That was actually my first choice as well, but after talking to robbat2 about 
it, we decided on 'theology' instead.  The fact is, all the packages but one we 
currently maintain are directly and obviously related to religion, and it seemed 
like it would be silly to create herds for each social categorization.  In the 
end, I tried my best to make up for it by noting in the herds.xml that the 
description is to take care of "Religious, genealogy, humanities-related packages".

Also, for the curious, here's the list of packages the herd will help to take 
care of:

Packages(8):   app-misc/gramps
                app-text/bibletime
                app-text/gnomesword
                app-text/sword
                app-text/sword-modules
                games-misc/fortune-mod-mormon
                games-misc/fortune-mod-scriptures
                kde-misc/kio-sword

If I missed anything, please be sure to let me know.

Thanks guys

Steve

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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:56:44 +0200
Matti Bickel <mabi@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I shall contemplate fiercely on building my own herd of nightly
> > bloodsuckers, zombies and cannibals. I don't know whether to call it
> > 'postnuclear-vampirism' or just plain 'satanism' yet.
> 
> I'm interested. Will you bring back xmms? Will your program include
> last-rites for packages you "convert" over from maintainer-needed?

Yes, and maybe "inhumanities" would be a better idea for a herd.
Although converting all the maintainer-needed sounds like vampirism a
lot.

> Oh, and about that "theology" herd - i do find 'theology' a kinda
> narrow naming, but that's just me.

My point exactly. However, as long as they drive people to coordinate
their work better, I don't care what herds are called. For all I care
you start giving each herd a mascot.


Kind regards,
     JeR
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Dominique Michel]

Le Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:59:25 +0200,
Alexandre Buisse <nattfodd@gentoo.org> a écrit :

> On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 11:25:01 +0200, Duncan wrote:
> > > It's a very good question, it was posed at the time, it was never
> > > answered and at last we can now say it was almost completely ignored.
> > 
> > I (and I expect others who know) didn't answer this before, as it would 
> > have been too easy to start an OT subthread I didn't want to start, but I 
> > trust everyone minding the CoC will prevent that from occurring now.
> > 
> > Briefly (and intended to be neutrally), the Latter Day Saints, commonly 
> > known as the Mormons (maybe other groups as well??), have a religious 
> > interest in genealogy, so having it in the religion/theology herd would 
> > make sense to them.  That should answer the question, and give a place to 
> > start for those interested in looking it up.
> 
> And a sect from the remote regions of Lapland believes that haskell is
> a godsend and adore the ghc source code as their Holy Scripture, should
> we move the haskell herd to theology as well?
> 
>  
> > However, I agree the sciences or a general humanities herd will make more 
> > sense to most folks.  I don't feel strongly enough about it to be worth 
> > arguing a maintainer's choice of herd for their packages, however.  After 
> > all, they're the ones taking responsibility for it in the tree, 
> > regardless of the herd it's in, and if it's more convenient for them in a 
> > theology herd, why should it be a problem for those not interested in the 
> > package?  It might raise a few eyebrows here or there, but if it's being 
> > well maintained, there are more critical things to argue about.
> 
> Sure, there are more critical things out there, but why should people,
> on such a critical subject, chose to label packages that have nothing to
> do with religion with a "theology" stamp?

I fully agree, theology is the worst possible name if the herd will include
both religious and scientific softwares.

Human beings have the unique possibility to use their critical mind (at least
if they understand at we have this unique feature in the creation), and
all the theology are based on the assumption at they are true only if we give
away our critical mind (Introduction of all the religious book, they said at it
is true because it is true...). And they cannot be true otherwise.

Religion: the prophet prove the religion and the religion prove the prophet.
Science: the theory is true only if it is proved by practical and reproductible
experimentation.

Words have a meaning. The fact is at genealogy is a science as it is possible
to prove it by practical experimentation, and it doesn't matter if the father
is a Mormon or the currier, an ADN prove will tell us. And for that it have
nothing to do with religious ideology. Theology is about religious study and
cannot be proved by practical and reproductible experimentation. For that, it
have nothing to do with science.

Otherwise: I think at it is a good idea to have that kind of softwares, but I
also think at the name of the herd is one of the worst the worst possible.
Please, don't call it with a name that is a direct reference to religious
ideology if you want to mix those different kind of softwares. I think at
at the best solution will be to make 2 herds, one for the religious ideology,
one for human-sciences, so at we can know what we are talking about.

It was my 2c. contribution on that matter.

Ciao,
Dominique
> 
> /Alexandre
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[gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Drake Wyrm]

Wernfried Haas <amne@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 07:54:00AM +0200, Steffen Brumm wrote:
> > and darwin is satan, other beliefs than christianity - death
> > penalty, fight the sciences, womans have to go behind the cooker or
> > into the open flame, only conservapedia is real,...
> 
> This certainly is an interesting first post to the Gentoo development
> list, not sure if it's pure trolling or just a joke gone bad. In any
> way, this is not exactly Gentoo development related and not really CoC
> [1] compliant. Please read the CoC before posting again.

Yeah, see... There's the problem with the CoCk. It's a generic
catch-all. "I didn't like that, therefore you're evil." Perfect example:
You took a friendly bit of sarcasm as being offensive, and you're using
the CoCk as justification for your objection thereto.

So, there are a few possibilities here. Either your English skills need
polishing, or you did so deliberately, or you could possibly be drunk.
If the former of the three, ignore this and keep practicing; you'll get
better. If the middle one, you're broken; you'll either ignore this and
dismiss me as ignorant, or throw a hissy-fit and try to hurt me in any
way you can. If the latter of the three, party on; it's Friday.

> Everyone else, please don't reply to this subthread as well for the
> same reasons.

Speaking of theology, isn't that a bit hypocritical: to reply, but
suggest that nobody else does?

-- 
"Such things have often happened and still happen,
 and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"
  -- Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Donnie Berkholz]

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Drake Wyrm wrote:
> Wernfried Haas <amne@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 07:54:00AM +0200, Steffen Brumm wrote:
>>> and darwin is satan, other beliefs than christianity - death
>>> penalty, fight the sciences, womans have to go behind the cooker or
>>> into the open flame, only conservapedia is real,...
>> This certainly is an interesting first post to the Gentoo development
>> list, not sure if it's pure trolling or just a joke gone bad. In any
>> way, this is not exactly Gentoo development related and not really CoC
>> [1] compliant. Please read the CoC before posting again.
> 
> Yeah, see... There's the problem with the CoCk. It's a generic
> catch-all. "I didn't like that, therefore you're evil." Perfect example:
> You took a friendly bit of sarcasm as being offensive, and you're using
> the CoCk as justification for your objection thereto.

The point, to me, isn't whether it's sarcasm. It's totally irrelevant to
development and off-topic, and it wasted my time.

Thanks,
Donnie


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Steve Dibb]

Dominique Michel wrote:

> I fully agree, theology is the worst possible name if the herd will include
> both religious and scientific softwares.

No worries, app-misc/gramps was dropped from the theology herd, and is herdless 
once again.

Steve
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Josh Saddler]

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Steve Dibb wrote:
> Dominique Michel wrote:
> 
>> I fully agree, theology is the worst possible name if the herd will
>> include
>> both religious and scientific softwares.
> 
> No worries, app-misc/gramps was dropped from the theology herd, and is
> herdless once again.

It's interesting that people are up in arms once again (like they didn't
read the old thread) about putting a package into a herd -- read the
category name; it's not sci-anything, it's app-misc. Just about any herd
would do. Usually the developers don't like packages that are herdless
for all the usual maintenance reasons. I mean, at least it's got a
maintainer (beandog in this case). But it's gotten no love from any of
the sci-* herds; it doesn't seem to be wanted. So what's the big problem
of sticking it into a herd somewhere, a herd that seems to be maintained
by just one person (beandog in this case)?



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Dominique Michel]

Le Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:07:26 -0700,
Josh Saddler <nightmorph@gentoo.org> a écrit :

> Steve Dibb wrote:
> > Dominique Michel wrote:
> > 
> >> I fully agree, theology is the worst possible name if the herd will
> >> include
> >> both religious and scientific softwares.
> > 
> > No worries, app-misc/gramps was dropped from the theology herd, and is
> > herdless once again.
> 
> So what's the big problem
> of sticking it into a herd somewhere, a herd that seems to be maintained
> by just one person (beandog in this case)?
> 
> 

The fact at the herd is maintained by one or more peoples have nothing to do
with this. It is about the meaning of the words and consistency. If I put
gramps into theology, I can put gnome into kde, mplayer into media-sound and
grabcartoons into theology.

Otherwise, sci-misc will be a better place for gramps (that seam to be as least
as good as some equivalent commercial softwares) as app-misc.

Dominique

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Thomas Rösner]

Hi,

I would hate to drag this discussion on endlessly, so I promise this
will be my only post :).

Dominique Michel wrote:
> Le Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:07:26 -0700,
> Josh Saddler <nightmorph@gentoo.org> a écrit :
>
>   
>> Steve Dibb wrote:
>>     
>>> Dominique Michel wrote:
>>>       
>>>> I fully agree, theology is the worst possible name if the herd will
>>>> include
>>>> both religious and scientific softwares.
>>>>         
>>> No worries, app-misc/gramps was dropped from the theology herd, and is
>>> herdless once again.
>>>       
>> So what's the big problem
>> of sticking it into a herd somewhere, a herd that seems to be maintained
>> by just one person (beandog in this case)?
>>
>>     
> The fact at the herd is maintained by one or more peoples have nothing to do
> with this. It is about the meaning of the words and consistency. If I put
> gramps into theology, I can put gnome into kde, mplayer into media-sound and
> grabcartoons into theology.
>   

I still fail to see why this is such a big thing if one package which is
mainly used in relation to a religion is in a herd called theology. It's
not as if the world will come to a shattering halt and chaos will reign.
If for some reason the gnome herd adopted fluxbox or the KDE people
would take care of HAL, would you object because their herd names don't
fit? Even if the alternative was the packet remaining herdless, because
no other herd was interested?

It's not as if this is a giant library, where a book will be lost
forever if it's in the wrong category, or like putting ID on the science
curriculum. Herds loosely lump related packages together, don't they? I
thought they were just infrastructure, not real categories.

Regards,
    Thomas

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[gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Duncan]

Thomas Rösner <Thomas.Roesner@digital-trauma.de> posted
4633408F.5030507@digital-trauma.de, excerpted below, on  Sat, 28 Apr 2007
14:39:43 +0200:

> I still fail to see why this is such a big thing if one package which is
> mainly used in relation to a religion is in a herd called theology. It's
> not as if the world will come to a shattering halt and chaos will reign.
> If for some reason the gnome herd adopted fluxbox or the KDE people
> would take care of HAL, would you object because their herd names don't
> fit? Even if the alternative was the packet remaining herdless, because
> no other herd was interested?
> 
> It's not as if this is a giant library, where a book will be lost
> forever if it's in the wrong category, or like putting ID on the science
> curriculum. Herds loosely lump related packages together, don't they? I
> thought they were just infrastructure, not real categories.

Indeed.  That's why while I don't personally agree with the idea of 
genealogy in theology, I think it goes in sci-*, I also don't believe 
it's a big deal in terms of herd placement.  Herd placement is primarily 
of "internal Gentoo interest", that is, to Gentoo devs/ATs/etc, not even 
most users except for filing bugs and if it's automated there... . 

If it was tree category placement and therefore could conceivably affect 
Gentoo user discoverability or otherwise had any significant external 
meaning at all, there might be /some/ reason to argue about it, but if 
it's only of interest internally for administrative use or the like, 
altho as I said it might raise a few eyebrows when folks happen across 
it.  

It's not as if it makes a difference, either to devs involved with it who 
will be involved anyway, or to those not interested in which case most 
won't touch it anyway, or even to bug wranglers or the like since that 
will be partially automated and where it isn't, they'll soon have job-
specific internal knowledge like this down along with all the rest of 
it.  Since it's not going to make a difference, certainly one of any 
significance, what's the big deal?  "Much ado about nothing"? 
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Ado_About_Nothing )

-- 
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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[gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Alexander Skwar]

· Thomas Rösner <Thomas.Roesner@digital-trauma.de>:

> I still fail to see why this is such a big thing if one package which is
> mainly used in relation to a religion is in a herd called theology.

Pardon me, but what makes you say, that gramps is "mainly used in
relation to a religion"? Just because some sect uses it? If so - 
how about putting Emacs into a "religious herd"? After all, emacs
is for some people a religion as well; and on the other hand, it
might be possible, that some religious persons use Emacs as well.
And finally - you can use Gramps perfectly well while being an
atheist or being agnostic.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
I am examining you on your fool ideas that no intelligent Christian
on earth believes.
                -- Clarence Darrow, to William Jennings Bryan


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Dominique Michel]

Le Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:16:27 +0000 (UTC),
Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> a écrit :

> Thomas Rösner <Thomas.Roesner@digital-trauma.de> posted
> 4633408F.5030507@digital-trauma.de, excerpted below, on  Sat, 28 Apr 2007
> 14:39:43 +0200:
> 
> 
> Indeed.  That's why while I don't personally agree with the idea of 
> genealogy in theology, I think it goes in sci-*, I also don't believe 
> it's a big deal in terms of herd placement.  Herd placement is primarily 
> of "internal Gentoo interest", that is, to Gentoo devs/ATs/etc, not even 
> most users except for filing bugs and if it's automated there... . 
> 

I disagree. When searching for a software to do a given job and when I have
no idea of which software can do it, I begin to look for the ebuild descriptions
in the portage tree. It goes faster as anything else with mc. And I will never
search a genealogy program in theology, so I will just miss it if it is in
theology.

That said, I agree at it is not a big deal in term of herd placement from a
developer point of vue, but it is one, as I already said, in term of
consistency and meanings. English is not my first language, and if the
portage tree don't have a good consistency regarding to the meaning of the used
terms, I vote to replace those terms by numbers. So it will be no consistency
problem because it will be no consistency at all. 

I am joking, the name of the herds are fine. And I prefer to have such a
naming policy as something as a/aa/* as on sourceforge.

Ciao,
Dominique
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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Rémi Cardona]

Josh Sled wrote:

> If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?

s/theology/humanities/ sounds good. +1 from me.

Rémi
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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Nathan Smith]

On 4/28/07, Rémi Cardona <remi@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Josh Sled wrote:
>
> > If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?
>
> s/theology/humanities/ sounds good. +1 from me.
>
> Rémi
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

Indeed.  Even if we wanted a herd specific to religion, "theology" is
not the best choice since I've yet to conceive of how a program can do
theology.  Certain types of programs can inform one's theology
(textual studies programs based on SWORD are a good example of this),
but the same programs have various other uses.  Humanities is a good
enough description.

-- 
Nathan Smith
ndansmith@gmail.com
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[gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Duncan]

Dominique Michel <dominique.michel@citycable.ch> posted
20070428183250.68881282@localhost, excerpted below, on  Sat, 28 Apr 2007
18:32:50 +0200:

> I disagree. When searching for a software to do a given job and when I
> have no idea of which software can do it, I begin to look for the ebuild
> descriptions in the portage tree. It goes faster as anything else with
> mc. And I will never search a genealogy program in theology, so I will
> just miss it if it is in theology.

I think you are missing the distinction between category/package, as seen 
in the tree and therefore affecting users and externally visible, and 
herd, which many users likely aren't aware of at all, as it's primarily a 
Gentoo-internal way for devs to organize packages of a similar theme they 
may be interested in working on.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Josh Saddler]

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Nathan Smith wrote:
> On 4/28/07, Rémi Cardona <remi@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Josh Sled wrote:
>>
>> > If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?
>>
>> s/theology/humanities/ sounds good. +1 from me.
>>
>> Rémi
>> -- 
>> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>>
>>
> 
> Indeed.  Even if we wanted a herd specific to religion, "theology" is
> not the best choice since I've yet to conceive of how a program can do
> theology.  Certain types of programs can inform one's theology
> (textual studies programs based on SWORD are a good example of this),
> but the same programs have various other uses.  Humanities is a good
> enough description.
> 

It would only be called "humanities" if it was also trying to include
gramps (geneology) with the other 7 packages which are explicitly
religious in nature. As beandog has already said, gramps has been
removed from the herd. religion or theology is clearly the most
appropriate category of the remaining packages. There's no need to
rename the herd to "humanities" just because some folks are
uncomfortable with topics and packages relating to religion.

Think about your local library (Dewey decimal system) -- you don't find
Bible study guides in the humanities/sociology (300s, 400s, 600s, 800s
and possibly 900s (history))...you find it in 100s and 200s. The
sections on "religion and philosophy". the remaining 7 packages are
clearly religious in nature. Don't try to label them anything else, just
because you ain't comfortable with it or don't like 'em.

At least, that's my interpretation of most of the replies to this thread
so far.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Rémi Cardona]

Josh Saddler wrote:

> It would only be called "humanities" if it was also trying to include
> gramps (geneology) with the other 7 packages which are explicitly
> religious in nature. As beandog has already said, gramps has been
> removed from the herd.

I had missed that part in the other threads. My bad.

Rémi
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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd: theology

[Dominique Michel]

Le Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:25:46 -0700,
Josh Saddler <nightmorph@gentoo.org> a écrit :

> Nathan Smith wrote:
> > On 4/28/07, Rémi Cardona <remi@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> Josh Sled wrote:
> >>
> >> > If that's the case, might not "humanities" be a better name?
> >>
> >> s/theology/humanities/ sounds good. +1 from me.
> >>
> >> Rémi
> >> -- 
> >> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > Indeed.  Even if we wanted a herd specific to religion, "theology" is
> > not the best choice since I've yet to conceive of how a program can do
> > theology.  Certain types of programs can inform one's theology
> > (textual studies programs based on SWORD are a good example of this),
> > but the same programs have various other uses.  Humanities is a good
> > enough description.
> > 
> 
> It would only be called "humanities" if it was also trying to include
> gramps (geneology) with the other 7 packages which are explicitly
> religious in nature. As beandog has already said, gramps has been
> removed from the herd. religion or theology is clearly the most
> appropriate category of the remaining packages. There's no need to
> rename the herd to "humanities" just because some folks are
> uncomfortable with topics and packages relating to religion.
> 
> Think about your local library (Dewey decimal system) -- you don't find
> Bible study guides in the humanities/sociology (300s, 400s, 600s, 800s
> and possibly 900s (history))...you find it in 100s and 200s. The
> sections on "religion and philosophy". the remaining 7 packages are
> clearly religious in nature. Don't try to label them anything else, just
> because you ain't comfortable with it or don't like 'em.
> 

I agree with you. And genealogy is somewhere in the sciences or human sciences
section.

Dominique
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Dominique Michel]

Le Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:27:47 +0000 (UTC),
Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> a écrit :

> Dominique Michel <dominique.michel@citycable.ch> posted
> 20070428183250.68881282@localhost, excerpted below, on  Sat, 28 Apr 2007
> 18:32:50 +0200:
> 
> > I disagree. When searching for a software to do a given job and when I
> > have no idea of which software can do it, I begin to look for the ebuild
> > descriptions in the portage tree. It goes faster as anything else with
> > mc. And I will never search a genealogy program in theology, so I will
> > just miss it if it is in theology.
> 
> I think you are missing the distinction between category/package, as seen 
> in the tree and therefore affecting users and externally visible, and 
> herd, which many users likely aren't aware of at all, as it's primarily a 
> Gentoo-internal way for devs to organize packages of a similar theme they 
> may be interested in working on.
> 

It is well possible as I am not a dev. (still) I will look at it. But it
doesn't change at some devs expressed the same concern in this thread. Another
fact remain: theology is about religion when genealogy is about sciences.

Ciao,
Dominique
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: new herd: theology

[Wulf C. Krueger]

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On Sunday, April 29, 2007 12:00:08 PM Dominique Michel wrote:

> Another fact remain: theology is about religion when genealogy
> is about sciences.

Theology *is* a science. 

Anyway, gramps is no longer part of the theology herd. Can we drop this 
now?

Best regards, Wulf

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