[gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Roy Marples]

Hi List

bsaelayout-2.0.0_alpha2 will ship without any volume support for things
like LVM, RAID, etc. We only ship the hooks right now, but we won't
ship those any more as we can't seem it get it right.

If you care about such things, then you need to pester the maintainer
of said package to write an init script for it that has the following
dependency

depend() {
   before checkroot
}

Any other dependencies should be done by the USER
in /etc/conf.d/foo like so

RC_NEED="bar"

Which shows that foo needs bar. Or rather dm-crypt needs lvm or some
such. Of couse, same USER can add RC_NEED="lvm"
to /etc/conf.d/localmount or any other service too.

This is kind of required so that /dev managers don't have to use nasty
hacks either.

Thanks

Roy
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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Benjamin Smee (strerror)]

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On Friday 13 April 2007 12:41:43 Roy Marples wrote:
> If you care about such things, then you need to pester the maintainer
> of said package to write an init script for it that has the following
> dependency

I'll look into it, any idea when you are going to making baselayout-2 
stable so I have an ETA on when this has to be done by? Anyone that has 
time and wants to submit some patches (I don't think that there is too 
much that is bash specific in it off the top of my head) to test, simply 
bug it to me.

- -- 
- --  
Benjamin Smee (strerror)
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Friday 13 April 2007, Benjamin Smee (strerror) wrote:
> On Friday 13 April 2007 12:41:43 Roy Marples wrote:
> > If you care about such things, then you need to pester the maintainer
> > of said package to write an init script for it that has the following
> > dependency
>
> I'll look into it, any idea when you are going to making baselayout-2
> stable so I have an ETA on when this has to be done by? Anyone that has
> time and wants to submit some patches (I don't think that there is too
> much that is bash specific in it off the top of my head) to test, simply
> bug it to me.

ha, it wont even be leaving package.mask soonish, so i doubt you have any 
stable worries

i wonder how hard we want to ride this though ... target 2007.1 ?
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Alex Tarkovsky]

On 4/13/07, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> ha, it wont even be leaving package.mask soonish, so i doubt you have any
> stable worries
>
> i wonder how hard we want to ride this though ... target 2007.1 ?

It's mid-April and 2007.0 is still nowhere in sight, so the idea that
there will be a 2007.1 is looking increasingly unrealistic. Please
don't make baselayout-2's unmasking contingent on that.

What I'd like to find out is whether baselayout-2 allows the
crypt-swap non-random key issue [1] to be properly solved.

--Alex

[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=134489
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Friday 13 April 2007, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> On 4/13/07, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > ha, it wont even be leaving package.mask soonish, so i doubt you have any
> > stable worries
> >
> > i wonder how hard we want to ride this though ... target 2007.1 ?
>
> It's mid-April and 2007.0 is still nowhere in sight

you're clearly not part of the release process

> so the idea that 
> there will be a 2007.1 is looking increasingly unrealistic. Please
> don't make baselayout-2's unmasking contingent on that.

read what i said again, i'm talking about stabilizing
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Alex Tarkovsky]

On 4/13/07, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Friday 13 April 2007, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> > It's mid-April and 2007.0 is still nowhere in sight
>
> you're clearly not part of the release process

Can you tell us the release date then?

I didn't think so. :)

--Alex
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 11:23 -0500, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> It's mid-April and 2007.0 is still nowhere in sight, so the idea that
> there will be a 2007.1 is looking increasingly unrealistic. Please
> don't make baselayout-2's unmasking contingent on that.

I guess I should just delete all this 2007.0 media we've been working on
then, huh?

I'm simply amazed at the level of complete and total bullshit that some
people spout off on this list without bothering to check facts or take 3
seconds to talk to the people in the know.  If you don't know what
you're talking about, rather than open your mouth and prove to everyone
that you are clueless about the particular topic, it's probably best to
either ask someone or talk about something you're actually familiar
with, instead.  For those of you wondering, 2007.0 is close to being
finished.  You can blame the abnormally high number of security
vulnerabilities in large packages for the delays.  Also, the dates given
on the Release Engineering pages are nothing more than guesses made by
me months before we even start the release.  They are in no way binding.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Friday 13 April 2007, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> On 4/13/07, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On Friday 13 April 2007, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> > > It's mid-April and 2007.0 is still nowhere in sight
> >
> > you're clearly not part of the release process
>
> Can you tell us the release date then?
>
> I didn't think so. :)

i never said i was part of the release process
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Friday 13 April 2007, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 11:23 -0500, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> > It's mid-April and 2007.0 is still nowhere in sight, so the idea that
> > there will be a 2007.1 is looking increasingly unrealistic. Please
> > don't make baselayout-2's unmasking contingent on that.
>
> I guess I should just delete all this 2007.0 media we've been working on
> then, huh?
>
> I'm simply amazed at the level of complete and total bullshit that some
> people spout off on this list without bothering to check facts or take 3
> seconds to talk to the people in the know.  If you don't know what
> you're talking about, rather than open your mouth and prove to everyone
> that you are clueless about the particular topic, it's probably best to
> either ask someone or talk about something you're actually familiar
> with, instead.  For those of you wondering, 2007.0 is close to being
> finished.  You can blame the abnormally high number of security
> vulnerabilities in large packages for the delays.  Also, the dates given
> on the Release Engineering pages are nothing more than guesses made by
> me months before we even start the release.  They are in no way binding.

so full of hate !
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Petteri Räty]

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Alex Tarkovsky kirjoitti:
>
> So I promise to get myself a clue just as soon as you've changed your
> policies to be more inclusive and less hostile towards users. Deal? :)
>

The thing is that your comment was probably perceived as a negative
comment about our releases being late or something like that at least
that's how it come out to me at least.

Regards,
Petteri


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2007.0 release (was: Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc))

[Thilo Bangert]

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Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> said:
> I'm simply amazed at the level of complete and total bullshit that some
> people spout off on this list without bothering to check facts or take
> 3 seconds to talk to the people in the know.  If you don't know what
> you're talking about, rather than open your mouth and prove to everyone
> that you are clueless about the particular topic, it's probably best to
> either ask someone or talk about something you're actually familiar
> with, instead.

this seems to come up more often than you like. is this the release 
tracker bug?
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156814

kind regards
Thilo

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[gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

[Andrew Gaffney]

Thilo Bangert wrote:
> Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> said:
>> I'm simply amazed at the level of complete and total bullshit that some
>> people spout off on this list without bothering to check facts or take
>> 3 seconds to talk to the people in the know.  If you don't know what
>> you're talking about, rather than open your mouth and prove to everyone
>> that you are clueless about the particular topic, it's probably best to
>> either ask someone or talk about something you're actually familiar
>> with, instead.
> 
> this seems to come up more often than you like. is this the release 
> tracker bug?
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156814

It's not exactly a release tracker...more for the release *snapshot*.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

[Jakub Moc]

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Thilo Bangert napsal(a):
> this seems to come up more often than you like. is this the release 
> tracker bug?
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156814
> 
> kind regards
> Thilo


Yeah. It's restricted to developers only, though, so not much useful for
users. :)


-- 
Best regards,

 Jakub Moc
 mailto:jakub@gentoo.org
 GPG signature:
 http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E
 Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95  B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E

 ... still no signature   ;)


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Re: 2007.0 release (was: Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc))

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 20:23 +0200, Thilo Bangert wrote:
> Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> said:
> > I'm simply amazed at the level of complete and total bullshit that some
> > people spout off on this list without bothering to check facts or take
> > 3 seconds to talk to the people in the know.  If you don't know what
> > you're talking about, rather than open your mouth and prove to everyone
> > that you are clueless about the particular topic, it's probably best to
> > either ask someone or talk about something you're actually familiar
> > with, instead.
> 
> this seems to come up more often than you like. is this the release 
> tracker bug?
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156814

No.  We don't track releases via bugs.  Things simply change too fast
for it to be a usable solution.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 20:40 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
> Thilo Bangert napsal(a):
> > this seems to come up more often than you like. is this the release 
> > tracker bug?
> > http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156814
> > 
> > kind regards
> > Thilo
> 
> 
> Yeah. It's restricted to developers only, though, so not much useful for
> users. :)

Yeah, I did that because we had users adding their favorite apps to the
snapshot tracker, which had absolutely no place there.  All in all, we
have found that things seem to work best when we just hide in our little
corner of IRC, shut up, and work.  We use the tracker bug during the
initial snapshot phase since we're reporting bugs in the tree.  Once
we've taken the snapshot, however, we don't use bugs since many of them
are fixed in the tree, but not in our snapshot.  Currently, I keep track
of the release via a spreadsheet, but I've been working towards getting
a project tracking software package setup and configured to replace this
functionality.  Of course, that tracker won't be public.  It's much
simpler to answer the few questions we get than it is to answer the
floods of questions we *used* to get when we posted dates everywhere.
The nature of the tree simply makes it impossible for us to accurately
estimate a release date.  This release we even went so far as to create
a completely new snapshot due to there being so many changes necessary
in our original one and the packages getting too stale.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Jeffrey Gardner]

Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> Can you tell us the release date then?
> 
> I didn't think so. :)
> 
> --Alex

Dickish messages like this one might possibly earn you some "cold
shoulder" or "hostility" from people who work very hard for you...

-- 
Jeffrey Gardner
Gentoo Developer
Public PGP Key ID: 4A5D8F23
hkp://pgpkeys.mit.edu
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

[Jakub Moc]

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Chris Gianelloni napsal(a):
> On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 20:40 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
>> Thilo Bangert napsal(a):
>>> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156814
>> Yeah. It's restricted to developers only, though, so not much useful for
>> users. :)
> 
> Yeah, I did that because we had users adding their favorite apps to the
> snapshot tracker, which had absolutely no place there. 

I'm not implying there's anything wrong w/ restricting the bug; just
that pointing users here to it won't get them very far. ;)

> Currently, I keep track of the release via a spreadsheet > but I've
been working towards getting
> a project tracking software package setup and configured to replace this
> functionality. 

Sounds cool, good luck. Homebrew one, or something else? :)


-- 
Best regards,

 Jakub Moc
 mailto:jakub@gentoo.org
 GPG signature:
 http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E
 Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95  B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E

 ... still no signature   ;)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Alex Tarkovsky]

On 4/13/07, Jeffrey Gardner <je_fro@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> > Can you tell us the release date then?
> >
> > I didn't think so. :)
> >
> > --Alex
>
> Dickish messages like this one might possibly earn you some "cold
> shoulder" or "hostility" from people who work very hard for you...

1) It's a friendly joke. Note the smiley face, which wouldn't be used
if it weren't a joke. Well, I might use a scowly face. >;^{

2) Why must some Gentoo devs like yourself and Mr. Gianelloni reply
with expletives to things you disagree with? It's no wonder you need
proctors; unwarranted escalation and invective seems to come so
naturally here.

--Alex
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Jan Kundrát]

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Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> 2) Why must some Gentoo devs like yourself and Mr. Gianelloni reply
> with expletives to things you disagree with? It's no wonder you need
> proctors; unwarranted escalation and invective seems to come so
> naturally here.

Oh come on. Your mail wasn't based on actual facts, you were just
ranting, so you were asked to stop that. Escalation is what you're doing
right now.

So just get a beer and be cool, okay? It's friday, after all...

Cheers,
-jkt

-- 
cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth


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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Andrej Kacian]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:40:53 +0200
Jan Kundrát <jkt@gentoo.org> wrote:

> So just get a beer and be cool, okay? It's friday, after all...

No! No beer until my work shift ends! Then I'll join you.

-- 
Andrej

--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen]

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On Friday 13 April 2007 21:55, Andrej Kacian wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:40:53 +0200
>
> Jan Kundrát <jkt@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > So just get a beer and be cool, okay? It's friday, after all...
>
> No! No beer until my work shift ends! Then I'll join you.
Your work shift ending? Hah you're a dev so your shift never ends :)

Who want to drink beer friday night when they can dance with Bugzie while 
staying on their lazy ass?

/me invites Bugzie for another dance and swirls off

-- 
Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen (Jaervosz)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 21:16 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
> I'm not implying there's anything wrong w/ restricting the bug; just
> that pointing users here to it won't get them very far. ;)

*I* didn't point anyone to that bug, as I knew it was locked and
wouldn't provide our users with much of anything in the way of
information regarding the release.

> > Currently, I keep track of the release via a spreadsheet > but I've
> been working towards getting
> > a project tracking software package setup and configured to replace this
> > functionality. 
> 
> Sounds cool, good luck. Homebrew one, or something else? :)

I'm using dotproject currently.  I am hoping that we can eventually move
it to another machine, but for the time being I just have to take the
time to fill in all of the tasks.  It really sucks when doing this since
every single task has to be duplicated for every architecture.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Doug Goldstein]

Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Friday 13 April 2007, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 11:23 -0500, Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
>>     
>>> It's mid-April and 2007.0 is still nowhere in sight, so the idea that
>>> there will be a 2007.1 is looking increasingly unrealistic. Please
>>> don't make baselayout-2's unmasking contingent on that.
>>>       
>> I guess I should just delete all this 2007.0 media we've been working on
>> then, huh?
>>
>> I'm simply amazed at the level of complete and total bullshit that some
>> people spout off on this list without bothering to check facts or take 3
>> seconds to talk to the people in the know.  If you don't know what
>> you're talking about, rather than open your mouth and prove to everyone
>> that you are clueless about the particular topic, it's probably best to
>> either ask someone or talk about something you're actually familiar
>> with, instead.  For those of you wondering, 2007.0 is close to being
>> finished.  You can blame the abnormally high number of security
>> vulnerabilities in large packages for the delays.  Also, the dates given
>> on the Release Engineering pages are nothing more than guesses made by
>> me months before we even start the release.  They are in no way binding.
>>     
>
> so full of hate !
> -mike
>   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Tenorman_Must_Die

I say we never piss Chris off again... ever...
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

[Alex Tarkovsky]

On 4/13/07, Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 21:16 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
> > I'm not implying there's anything wrong w/ restricting the bug; just
> > that pointing users here to it won't get them very far. ;)
>
> *I* didn't point anyone to that bug, as I knew it was locked and
> wouldn't provide our users with much of anything in the way of
> information regarding the release.

The channel topic in #gentoo-releng points to it. Steered this user wrong.

--Alex
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

[Andrew Gaffney]

Alex Tarkovsky wrote:
> On 4/13/07, Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 21:16 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
>> > I'm not implying there's anything wrong w/ restricting the bug; just
>> > that pointing users here to it won't get them very far. ;)
>>
>> *I* didn't point anyone to that bug, as I knew it was locked and
>> wouldn't provide our users with much of anything in the way of
>> information regarding the release.
> 
> The channel topic in #gentoo-releng points to it. Steered this user wrong.

And #gentoo-releng is a channel for devs that are members of releng, not users. 
There's a reason why it's +m. The information isn't there for users.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Steve Long]

Doug Goldstein wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Tenorman_Must_Die
> 
> I say we never piss Chris off again... ever...

Thank YOU! That was hilarious!

But seriously.. why don't you guys switch off reply-to munging, already?!
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_120444.xml


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 07:57 +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> Doug Goldstein wrote:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Tenorman_Must_Die
> > 
> > I say we never piss Chris off again... ever...
> 
> Thank YOU! That was hilarious!
> 
> But seriously.. why don't you guys switch off reply-to munging, already?!
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_120444.xml

http://dev.gentoo.org/~wolf31o2/xml/reply-to.xml for those of you that
care.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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[gentoo-dev] Reply-To Munging [was Re: Re: baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)]

[Steve Long]

Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> Steve Long wrote:
>> But seriously.. why don't you guys switch off reply-to munging, already?!
>> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_120444.xml
> 
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~wolf31o2/xml/reply-to.xml for those of you that
> care.
> 
Thank you.
"Some of the most popular mail clients in use do not support a Reply-To-List
function. This causes problems for the users of these clients and has
resulted in Reply-To munging being used to reduce complexity for these
users."

I'm more than happy to modify my client etc, but I still think it might be a
good idea for this list, to make it less likely that people will fire off
rapid replies in the heat of the moment. (Unlikely, I know.. ;) Or at least
that those replies will only be read by the other party, thus reducing the
noise in here.

After all it's a dev list, and assumes more knowledge than the user m-l so
asking people to use a client with Reply-To-List, iff they want to
participate, isn't a big deal imo.


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Reply-To Munging [was Re: Re: baselayout-2 and volumes (raid, lvm, crypt, etc)]

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 06:11 +0100, Steve Long wrote:
> After all it's a dev list, and assumes more knowledge than the user m-l so
> asking people to use a client with Reply-To-List, iff they want to
> participate, isn't a big deal imo.

I agree 100%.  The only list I would even consider using reply-to
munging on would be gentoo-user, and even then I would much prefer we do
like we do with *everything else* in Gentoo, and teach the user the
proper way to do things, rather than try to coddle them and allow them
to continue with poor practices.  I tend to think that is one of the
great things about Gentoo, our ability to teach people how to think
differently and work differently.

Of course, it isn't my call.  ;]

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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