[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Grant Goodyear]

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Vapier wrote: [Wed Jan 31 2007, 11:30:01PM CST]
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

Care to weigh-in on the tr1 issue?  Due to the lack of really good
ideas, it may be that a not-so-good one will need to be enacted
by fiat.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Grant Goodyear]

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Vapier wrote: [Wed Jan 31 2007, 11:30:01PM CST]
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

Care to weigh-in on the tr1 issue?  Due to the lack of really good
ideas, it may be that a not-so-good one will need to be enacted
by fiat.

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Petteri Räty]

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Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
> 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
> irc.freenode.net) !
> 
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.
> 

I would like the council to discuss if we should have a policy on how
long to wait for a developer to respond to a non critical bug before you
can fix it yourself.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:36:29 +0200 Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| I would like the council to discuss if we should have a policy on how
| long to wait for a developer to respond to a non critical bug before
| you can fix it yourself.

Wouldn't that depend highly upon the bug?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail                                : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web                                 : http://ciaranm.org/
Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Petteri Räty]

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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:36:29 +0200 Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> | I would like the council to discuss if we should have a policy on how
> | long to wait for a developer to respond to a non critical bug before
> | you can fix it yourself.
> 
> Wouldn't that depend highly upon the bug?
> 

It would but having some kind of deadline after which you are for
example free to take over the package if you want to would be nice.

Regards,
Petteri


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Thursday 01 February 2007, Petteri Räty wrote:
> It would but having some kind of deadline after which you are for
> example free to take over the package if you want to would be nice.

uhh this is certainly no good ... i wouldnt want someone looking at an old bug 
and going "shit he hasnt fixed it, this package is now MINE"

i feel like a little more communication between people would address this ... 
you want to help fix a bug package, ask the maintainer if it's ok

this isnt for dealing with MIA devs
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Kevin F. Quinn]

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On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 22:19:57 +0200
Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:36:29 +0200 Petteri Räty
> > <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > | I would like the council to discuss if we should have a policy on
> > how | long to wait for a developer to respond to a non critical bug
> > before | you can fix it yourself.
> > 
> > Wouldn't that depend highly upon the bug?
> > 
> 
> It would but having some kind of deadline after which you are for
> example free to take over the package if you want to would be nice.

That's going too far; there's certainly no need to take over a package
just to get a fix in.  If you want to take over a package, asking the
current maintainer has to be the first step, not to quietly wait for a
timeout then just grab it.  Similarly asking the current maintainer if
they mind you putting a fix in.

If that approach doesn't succeed, it should then be put in the hands of
devrel to arbitrate.  I don't see that anything more is needed.

-- 
Kevin F. Quinn

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Ryan Hill]

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Kevin F. Quinn wrote:
>> It would but having some kind of deadline after which you are for
>> example free to take over the package if you want to would be nice.
> 
> That's going too far; there's certainly no need to take over a package
> just to get a fix in.  If you want to take over a package, asking the
> current maintainer has to be the first step, not to quietly wait for a
> timeout then just grab it.  Similarly asking the current maintainer if
> they mind you putting a fix in.

That's of course a given.  I think the question here relates to
non-responsive maintainers or herds.  I have been in the situation many
many times with gcc-porting where I file a bug with a simple patch (say
removing extra qualification) to get a package to build with GCC 4.1,
and get no response for months from the maintainer despite multiple
pings.  In that case, i'll apply the fix myself.  I always try to wait a
month or more before going ahead and always ping at least once.  So far
i've not received any major complaints, but i'm just waiting for the day
someone will get territorial about their packages and decide rip me a
new one.  It'd be nice to have some kind of asshole insurance.

This also affects things like treecleaners.  How long does a herd team
or maintainer have to be unresponsive to warrant the package falling
into maintainer-needed?  Right now the most common way we find these
packages is when Jakub gets annoyed enough with the accumulating bugs
and lack of response to CC us. ;P

I personally think that for bug fixes a month is a long enough wait to
allow someone to respond.  Keep in mind that's to respond, not to fix
the bug.  A simple "yep, i'll get to this later" is enough.


-- 
                                        by design, by neglect
dirtyepic gentoo org            for a fact or just for effect
9B81 6C9F E791 83BB 3AB3 5B2D E625 A073 8379 37E8 (0x837937E8)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Kevin F. Quinn]

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On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:04:49 -0600
Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Kevin F. Quinn wrote:
> >> It would but having some kind of deadline after which you are for
> >> example free to take over the package if you want to would be nice.
> > 
> > That's going too far; there's certainly no need to take over a
> > package just to get a fix in.  If you want to take over a package,
> > asking the current maintainer has to be the first step, not to
> > quietly wait for a timeout then just grab it.  Similarly asking the
> > current maintainer if they mind you putting a fix in.
> 
> That's of course a given.  I think the question here relates to
> non-responsive maintainers or herds.

Well, this thread didn't start with MIA devs (which is what you're
talking about), it started with devs being too slow to take action.

I wouldn't have a standard timeout (far too regulatory) - just apply
common sense and do what needs to be done.

> I have been in the situation
> many many times with gcc-porting where I file a bug with a simple
> patch (say removing extra qualification) to get a package to build
> with GCC 4.1, and get no response for months from the maintainer
> despite multiple pings.  In that case, i'll apply the fix myself. I
> always try to wait a month or more before going ahead and always ping
> at least once.  So far i've not received any major complaints, but
> i'm just waiting for the day someone will get territorial about their
> packages and decide rip me a new one.  It'd be nice to have some kind
> of asshole insurance.

Well, my experience so far has been that provided you fix stuff
decently (both technically and politically ;) ), people don't mind
Maintainers can always tweak later if they prefer a different
solution.  If things get antsy, there's always devrel to mediate.

One obvious point, is to check a dev's away status if they're not
responding, before diving in.

> This also affects things like treecleaners.  How long does a herd team
> or maintainer have to be unresponsive to warrant the package falling
> into maintainer-needed?  Right now the most common way we find these
> packages is when Jakub gets annoyed enough with the accumulating bugs
> and lack of response to CC us. ;P
> 
> I personally think that for bug fixes a month is a long enough wait to
> allow someone to respond.  Keep in mind that's to respond, not to fix
> the bug.  A simple "yep, i'll get to this later" is enough.

-- 
Kevin F. Quinn

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Ryan Hill]

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Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
> 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
> irc.freenode.net) !

Reply-to and SPF docs?  Isn't this the third month now?

Also the infra doc on dev email still says not to use d.g.o as a relay
server.  I can't remember if this was first brought up in a council
meeting or on core though.  Just a friendly poke. ;)

-- 
                                        by design, by neglect
dirtyepic gentoo org            for a fact or just for effect
9B81 6C9F E791 83BB 3AB3 5B2D E625 A073 8379 37E8 (0x837937E8)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

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On Monday 05 February 2007, Ryan Hill wrote:
> Reply-to and SPF docs?  Isn't this the third month now?

I might be counting wrong, as last time I wasn't there, but it might be the 
fourth, counting the original one.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/
Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ...

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 01:06 -0600, Ryan Hill wrote:
> Reply-to

I've already completed this, I just haven't figured out exactly where it
needs to be committed.  I'm guessing somewhere in the developer
handbook.  Anyway, where should I send this so it'll be done?  File a
bug?

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Monday 05 February 2007, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 01:06 -0600, Ryan Hill wrote:
> > Reply-to
>
> I've already completed this, I just haven't figured out exactly where it
> needs to be committed.  I'm guessing somewhere in the developer
> handbook.  Anyway, where should I send this so it'll be done?  File a
> bug?

would it be more appropriate in the infra project ?
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Marius Mauch]

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On 01 Feb 2007 05:30:01
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
> 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
> irc.freenode.net) !
> 
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

Some people requested that the acceptance of GLEP 23 gets reconfirmed
by the council before I merge it into portage due to the changes it has
received.

Marius

-- 
Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub

In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be
Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better.

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[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 3rd Thursday at 1800 UTC / 2000 CET / 1400 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Denis Dupeyron]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
> the 3rd Thursday at 1800 UTC / 2000 CET / 1400 EST), same bat channel
> (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

Uh... no. The meeting is actually next Monday (January 8th) at 2000UTC
/ 2100CET / 1500 EST. We now adapt the date and time to suit our
schedules and maximize everybody's chance to be available. Mike, could
you please stop your cron job? It's now useless as I have to send the
reminder email manually, which I do more or less two weeks in advance.

Thanks,
Denis.

[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for February

[Mike Frysinger]

This is your monthly friendly reminder !  Same bat time (typically the
2nd Thursday once a month), same bat channel (#gentoo-council @
irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know !  Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every *re*submission to the council for review must
first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum) before
being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days before the
meeting.  Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be notified at
least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list