[gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Donnie Berkholz]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 561 bytes --]

Alternate subject: On the sudden appearance of USE=X for tons of stuff

I really want to use font.eclass in x-modular.eclass to get rid of a lot
of code duplication and more possible bugs. Problem is, it brings in
IUSE=X for every single X package. I cannot figure out how to prevent
this. Setting IUSE="" after the inherit in x-modular.eclass is not enough.

Anyone got any ideas? The only one I have is to add significant missing
functionality to font.eclass and switch every font package over that
instead of x-modular.eclass.

Thanks,
Donnie


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Olivier Crete]

On Mon, 2006-30-10 at 08:26 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Alternate subject: On the sudden appearance of USE=X for tons of stuff
> 
> I really want to use font.eclass in x-modular.eclass to get rid of a lot
> of code duplication and more possible bugs. Problem is, it brings in
> IUSE=X for every single X package. I cannot figure out how to prevent
> this. Setting IUSE="" after the inherit in x-modular.eclass is not enough.
> 
> Anyone got any ideas? The only one I have is to add significant missing
> functionality to font.eclass and switch every font package over that
> instead of x-modular.eclass.

Isnt it possible to define something like I_AM_X=1 in x-modular.eclass
and in fonts.eclass have a if [[ -z "${I_AM_X}" ]]; then IUSE="X";
DEPEND="current depends"; else DEPEND="as if X use flag was forced"; fi
and replace the use X with a use X || [[ -z "${I_AM_X}" ]]

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer


-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 599 bytes --]

On Monday 30 October 2006 17:26, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Anyone got any ideas? The only one I have is to add significant missing
> functionality to font.eclass and switch every font package over that
> instead of x-modular.eclass.

if [[ ${CATEGORY} == "media-font" ]]; then
  fonteclass="font"
endif

inherit foo bar autotools ${fonteclass}

this should do it, I suppose... it's cache static so should work, but it's 
untested.

-- 
Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/
Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ...

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Donnie Berkholz]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 500 bytes --]

Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> On Monday 30 October 2006 17:26, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>> Anyone got any ideas? The only one I have is to add significant missing
>> functionality to font.eclass and switch every font package over that
>> instead of x-modular.eclass.
> 
> if [[ ${CATEGORY} == "media-font" ]]; then
>   fonteclass="font"
> endif
> 
> inherit foo bar autotools ${fonteclass}

This is the best idea so far. I think I'll go with some variant of it.

Thanks,
Donnie


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 252 bytes --]

[gentoo-dev] Stop reading here

[Chris White]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 109 bytes --]

Everything else below is ugly.
-- 
Chris White
Gentoo Developer aka:
xxxxxx (Scissors Were Here) xxxxxx

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> I really want to use font.eclass in x-modular.eclass to get rid of a lot
> of code duplication and more possible bugs. Problem is, it brings in
> IUSE=X for every single X package. I cannot figure out how to prevent
> this. Setting IUSE="" after the inherit in x-modular.eclass is not enough.
E_IUSE=${E_IUSE//"X"}

But that's a dirty portage-specific hack ;]

-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 675 bytes --]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:44:30 +0100 Piotr Jaroszyński <peper@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| > I really want to use font.eclass in x-modular.eclass to get rid of
| > a lot of code duplication and more possible bugs. Problem is, it
| > brings in IUSE=X for every single X package. I cannot figure out
| > how to prevent this. Setting IUSE="" after the inherit in
| > x-modular.eclass is not enough.
| E_IUSE=${E_IUSE//"X"}
| 
| But that's a dirty portage-specific hack ;]

And it doesn't work.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail                : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web                 : http://ciaranm.org/
as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13


[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> And it doesn't work.
Wanna bet? Of course you must put it in the x-modular.eclass, but I thought 
that's quite obvious as spyderous was talking about adding IUSE="" to that 
eclass.

-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1150 bytes --]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:21:46 +0100 Piotr Jaroszyński <peper@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| > And it doesn't work.
|
| Wanna bet? Of course you must put it in the x-modular.eclass, but I
| thought that's quite obvious as spyderous was talking about adding
| IUSE="" to that eclass.

Yes, I do want to bet. You don't have a clue what you're talking about
and you don't have a clue how to use bash substitution correctly.

Just what do you think will happen when another eclass sets IUSE="X" and
it's supposed to be kept?

Just what do you think will happen when another eclass sets
IUSE="Xaw3d"?

Just what do you think will happen when Portage internals change? This
has happened several times with those variables?

Your solution is approximately on par with fixing a wobbly chair by
sawing off all four legs and then attaching what's left to a crocodile.
With the kind of idiocy you're spewing, do you really wonder why people
have no faith in Sunrise?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail                : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web                 : http://ciaranm.org/
as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13


[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Andrew Gaffney]

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Your solution is approximately on par with fixing a wobbly chair by
> sawing off all four legs and then attaching what's left to a crocodile.

+1 for creativity and making me literally laugh out loud

-- 
Andrew Gaffney                            http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer                                   Installer Project
Today's lesson in political correctness:      "Go asphyxiate on a phallus"
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Stephen Bennett]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:04:47 +0100
Piotr Jaroszyński <peper@gentoo.org> wrote:

> > Just what do you think will happen when Portage internals change?
> > This has happened several times with those variables?
> E_IUSE was added in 2.0.50-r10 or r11 and was never changed.

...yet. Past Portage releases don't have it. Future Portage releases may
not. Other package managers don't. Using it at all is to intentionally
screw around with things that ebuilds should not know or need to, is
asking for trouble, and will have a certain group on your back as soon
as they find out (not just the paludis developers either). Especially so
when a correct solution has already been posted in this thread.

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> ...yet. Past Portage releases don't have it. Future Portage releases may
> not. Other package managers don't. Using it at all is to intentionally
> screw around with things that ebuilds should not know or need to, is
> asking for trouble, and will have a certain group on your back as soon
> as they find out (not just the paludis developers either). Especially so
> when a correct solution has already been posted in this thread.
Didn't I say that's a portage specific dirty-hack and rather a curiosity?!
It came to my mind b/c spyderous tried setting IUSE="". It can make someone 
read ebuild.sh code and see why that doesn't work - only better.

Why there is always *someone* who wants to win a pink elephant in the last 
word contest?

-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 470 bytes --]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:30:56 +0100 Piotr Jaroszyński <peper@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| Why there is always *someone* who wants to win a pink elephant in the
| last word contest?

We want to be damned sure that neither you nor anyone else is going to
persist with this kind of stupidity.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail                : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web                 : http://ciaranm.org/
as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13


[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2497 bytes --]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:04:47 +0100 Piotr Jaroszyński <peper@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| > Yes, I do want to bet. You don't have a clue what you're talking
| > about and you don't have a clue how to use bash substitution
| > correctly.
|
| Have you bet that you won't be kicked from gentoo also?

Oh, I think it's a pretty safe bet that *I* won't be kicked out of
Gentoo. But since you like that kind of argument, why do you love
Hitler?

| Normally I never quote in bash substitution, but I don't pay so much
| attention when I write something rather as a curiosity.

The quoting is not the issue.

| > Just what do you think will happen when another eclass sets
| > IUSE="X" and it's supposed to be kept?
|
| It depends, If it is inherited after x-modular It would be kept, but
| how about coming down on earth? We are talking about specific
| situation here and I doubt that smth inheriting x-modular would like
| to have X useflag - all in all that's the case here - such packages
| shouldn't have X useflag.

And this is the kind of short sighted thinking that leads to
maintenance nightmares later on. There are a lot of "I doubt"s and
"shouldn't"s here that don't apply to other solutions.

| > Just what do you think will happen when another eclass sets
| > IUSE="Xaw3d"?
|
| Specially for you and your pink elephants:
| E_IUSE=${E_IUSE// X }
| E_IUSE=${E_IUSE#X }
| E_IUSE=${E_IUSE% X}

No go. Arbitrary whitespace is allowed.

And now maybe you start to see why a *proper* solution is required.

| > Just what do you think will happen when Portage internals change?
| > This has happened several times with those variables?
|
| E_IUSE was added in 2.0.50-r10 or r11 and was never changed.

And the other E_ variables? Those have changed quite a bit.

| > Your solution is approximately on par with fixing a wobbly chair by
| > sawing off all four legs and then attaching what's left to a
| > crocodile. With the kind of idiocy you're spewing, do you really
| > wonder why people have no faith in Sunrise?
|
| You are great at comparisons - maybe you should be a poet like Homer?
| People would have more faith in you then.

I don't expect people to have faith in me. I expect people to read what
I say, think about it and then understand that I'm right.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail                : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web                 : http://ciaranm.org/
as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13


[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> | > Just what do you think will happen when another eclass sets
> | > IUSE="Xaw3d"?
> |
> | Specially for you and your pink elephants:
> | E_IUSE=${E_IUSE// X }
> | E_IUSE=${E_IUSE#X }
> | E_IUSE=${E_IUSE% X}
>
> No go. Arbitrary whitespace is allowed.
I thought that you really know what you are talking about, but now I have no 
doubts that you don't:
E_IUSE=${E_IUSE// X } - deletes every X with whitespace around it.
E_IUSE=${E_IUSE#X } - deletes X if there is one at the beginning
E_IUSE=${E_IUSE% X} - deletes X if there is one at the end
No more X left.

-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> E_IUSE=${E_IUSE// X } - deletes every X with whitespace around it.
This should be E_IUSE=${E_IUSE// X / }.

-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Michael Hanselmann]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 378 bytes --]

Hello Piotr

On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 09:40:28PM +0100, Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> E_IUSE=${E_IUSE// X } - deletes every X with whitespace around it.

What happens if someone uses newlines, horizontal tabs, vertical tabs or
any other whitespace character instead of spaces? Boom.

Greets,
Michael

-- 
Gentoo Linux developer, http://hansmi.ch/, http://forkbomb.ch/

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> Whitespace. Not space.
>
> E_IUSE=$'foo\tX'
Ok, you are right here. Sorry for saying that you don't know what you are 
talking about, it seems you do. But don't assume that everyone else don't. 
And for future you could be more specific, "Doesn't work", esp. If something 
do work(not the right way tho, but the goal is reached), is not enough. You 
wouldn't like to read such bug reports about paludis, would you?
 
-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Danny van Dyk]

Am Montag, 30. Oktober 2006 22:19 schrieb Piotr Jaroszyński:
> > Whitespace. Not space.
> >
> > E_IUSE=$'foo\tX'
>
> Ok, you are right here. Sorry for saying that you don't know what you
> are talking about, it seems you do. But don't assume that everyone
> else don't. And for future you could be more specific, "Doesn't
> work", esp. If something do work(not the right way tho, but the goal
> is reached), is not enough. You wouldn't like to read such bug
And this is the point: Your definition of 'works' is (in my eyes) at 
least sloppy. If it doesn't work for all sensible cases, it shouldn't 
be labelled as 'works'.
> reports about paludis, would you?
This is why we discourage bugreports w/p prior contact on IRC.

Danny
-- 
Danny van Dyk <kugelfang@gentoo.org>
Gentoo/AMD64 Project, Gentoo Scientific Project

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> And this is the point: Your definition of 'works' is (in my eyes) at
> least sloppy. If it doesn't work for all sensible cases, it shouldn't
> be labelled as 'works'.
Does "dirty portage-specific hack" mean "That's my bulletproof solution for 
that problem"? I didn't mean that and I hope that's obvious.

> This is why we discourage bugreports w/p prior contact on IRC.
And I discourage saying "doesn't work" w/o saying what is specifically not 
working esp. if the goal, at the first glance, is reached. It leads nowhere 
and is just stupid. "It's not safe, don't you ever do it plz!" would be much 
better if you for example don't have time to give the details.

-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Simon Stelling]

Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> Just for fun(=I wouldn't use it in ebuild/eclass):

Sorry, but this mailing list is not really the best place for "just for
fun" bash foo. I suggest you take it somewhere else.

-- 
Kind Regards,

Simon Stelling
Gentoo/AMD64 Developer
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Piotr Jaroszyński]

> Sorry, but this mailing list is not really the best place for "just for
> fun" bash foo. I suggest you take it somewhere else.
Actually that was a question which whitespaces are allowed in IUSE, so I think 
it's not the worst place for it. Especially if you count the number of flame 
senseless posts on this list.

-- 
Piotr Jaroszyński
Gentoo Developer

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Ryan Hill]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1387 bytes --]

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:21:46 +0100 Piotr Jaroszyński <peper@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> | > And it doesn't work.
> |
> | Wanna bet? Of course you must put it in the x-modular.eclass, but I
> | thought that's quite obvious as spyderous was talking about adding
> | IUSE="" to that eclass.
> 
> Yes, I do want to bet. You don't have a clue what you're talking about
> and you don't have a clue how to use bash substitution correctly.
> 
> Just what do you think will happen when another eclass sets IUSE="X" and
> it's supposed to be kept?
> 
> Just what do you think will happen when another eclass sets
> IUSE="Xaw3d"?
> 
> Just what do you think will happen when Portage internals change? This
> has happened several times with those variables?
> 
> Your solution is approximately on par with fixing a wobbly chair by
> sawing off all four legs and then attaching what's left to a crocodile.
> With the kind of idiocy you're spewing, do you really wonder why people
> have no faith in Sunrise?

I'm sorry, but is anyone else sick and disgusted with Ciaran talking to
people like this?  This isn't called for and shouldn't be tolerated.


-- 
                                        by design, by neglect
dirtyepic@gentoo.org            for a fact or just for effect
9B81 6C9F E791 83BB 3AB3 5B2D E625 A073 8379 37E8 (0x837937E8)


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Stephen Bennett]

On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 21:36:10 -0600
Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I'm sorry, but is anyone else sick and disgusted with Ciaran talking
> to people like this?  This isn't called for and shouldn't be
> tolerated.

No. Perhaps he could have been a bit more subtle, but it was entirely
called for given the previous email in the thread. If people can't cope
with being told that they're wrong, that's their problem.
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Re: Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Ryan Hill]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 765 bytes --]

Ryan Hill wrote:
> I'm sorry, but is anyone else sick and disgusted with Ciaran talking to
> people like this?  This isn't called for and shouldn't be tolerated.

After sleeping on it, I've decided my problem is personal, so i've just
taken my own advice and set up a simple mail filter so I don't have to
listen to this crap anymore.  Unless, of course people respond, which is
inevitable.  But, I encourage anyone else tired of the bullshit to do
the same, and maybe we can get the signal to noise ratio down to a
reasonable level.

Sorry for the noise.
-- 
                                        by design, by neglect
dirtyepic@gentoo.org            for a fact or just for effect
9B81 6C9F E791 83BB 3AB3 5B2D E625 A073 8379 37E8 (0x837937E8)


[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Stephen Bennett]

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 07:22:48 -0600
Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@gentoo.org> wrote:

> After sleeping on it, I've decided my problem is personal, so i've
> just taken my own advice and set up a simple mail filter so I don't
> have to listen to this crap anymore.  Unless, of course people
> respond, which is inevitable.  But, I encourage anyone else tired of
> the bullshit to do the same, and maybe we can get the signal to noise
> ratio down to a reasonable level.

And I encourage anyone else taking such measures not to bother telling
the list about it, to avoid making the signal to noise ratio even
worse. Thanks.
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Jason Stubbs]

On Monday 30 October 2006 17:44, Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> E_IUSE=${E_IUSE//"X"}
>
> But that's a dirty portage-specific hack ;]

On Monday 30 October 2006 18:43, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> Your solution is approximately on par with fixing a wobbly chair by
> sawing off all four legs and then attaching what's left to a crocodile.

On Monday 06 November 2006 03:36, Ryan Hill wrote:
> I'm sorry, but is anyone else sick and disgusted with Ciaran talking to
> people like this?  This isn't called for and shouldn't be tolerated.

Yes, I'm also sick of this negative level of civility. If I don't preempt it 
now, I'll likely be told that I'm taking the above two quotes out of context 
and that I'm just spreading FUD, but I don't believe the context really 
changed from the outset.

Ciaran's analogies are always outrageous, condescending and greatly 
accentuated. Specifically, his intention is never to help the person he is 
replying to, but rather to show them that they are wrong. He believes that is 
purely up to the person that he is replying to whether they learn from it or 
not. There's a 100+ comment bug about this, though, which ended up with his 
dismissal so discussing it further won't help any.

--
Jason Stubbs

-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1371 bytes --]

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 02:18:41 +0000 Jason Stubbs <jstubbs@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| Yes, I'm also sick of this negative level of civility. If I don't
| preempt it now, I'll likely be told that I'm taking the above two
| quotes out of context

Which you are, since you removed a large part of my answer and then
used it to claim that my answer was unhelpful. Hint: read all of what I
wrote.

| Ciaran's analogies are always outrageous, condescending and greatly 
| accentuated.

And a lot of people find them a pleasant change from the usual lack of
style and humour exhibited on this list. Effective technical writing
does not have to be boring.

| Specifically, his intention is never to help the person
| he is replying to, but rather to show them that they are wrong.

The person is irrelevant. What matters is whether someone looks at a
proposed incorrect solution and uses it.

| He believes that is purely up to the person that he is replying to
| whether they learn from it or not.

Well yes. What is this, nursery school?

| discussing it further won't help any.

But you still felt the need to try to throw in a cheap shot full of
personal attacks. Right.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail                : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
Web                 : http://ciaranm.org/
as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13


[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

[Jason Stubbs]

On Monday 06 November 2006 17:55, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 02:18:41 +0000 Jason Stubbs <jstubbs@gentoo.org>
>
> wrote:
> | Yes, I'm also sick of this negative level of civility. If I don't
> | preempt it now, I'll likely be told that I'm taking the above two
> | quotes out of context
>
> Which you are, since you removed a large part of my answer and then
> used it to claim that my answer was unhelpful. Hint: read all of what I
> wrote.

I didn't claim that you were unhelpful; I merely claimed that you weren't 
civil. In fact, I acknowledged that your responses could be learned from.

> | Ciaran's analogies are always outrageous, condescending and greatly
> | accentuated.
>
> And a lot of people find them a pleasant change from the usual lack of
> style and humour exhibited on this list. Effective technical writing
> does not have to be boring.

Sure, but others just find them to be uncivil personal attacks.

> | Specifically, his intention is never to help the person
> | he is replying to, but rather to show them that they are wrong.
>
> The person is irrelevant. What matters is whether someone looks at a
> proposed incorrect solution and uses it.
>
> | He believes that is purely up to the person that he is replying to
> | whether they learn from it or not.
>
> Well yes. What is this, nursery school?

Keep these two points in mind.

> | discussing it further won't help any.
>
> But you still felt the need to try to throw in a cheap shot full of
> personal attacks. Right.

My intention was only to present the facts as I see them so as to reassure 
Ryan Hill that he is not alone. I can understand why you might take offense, 
but I was no more throwing in "a cheap shot full of personal attacks" than 
you do with your analogies. I thought that there might be a slim chance that 
you'd learn from what I said, but I left that decision up to you - after all, 
this isn't nursery school.

--
Jason Stubbs
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list