[gentoo-dev] Troubleshooters for Gentoo

[gentoo-dev] Troubleshooters for Gentoo

[Maurice van der Pot]

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Hi,

I've noticed in the past that a lot of people come to irc with problems
in some area (say networking) that are easy to solve just by first
asking a number of questions to identify the problem and then providing
the solution.

I've always liked the way Microsoft put these troubleshooters in their
help files. While the content of Microsoft's troubleshooters probably 
never really helped anyone, the format of a troubleshooter is in my 
opinion one of the best ways to help people solve their own problems.

Now I've hacked up a program that can create a troubleshooter from
specifications of questions and problems and their dependencies, but I'd
need to have some decent content to really make it useful for other
people.

I think having a couple of Gentoo-specific troubleshooters would be a
great resource for new users (not just new to Gentoo, but new to Linux).

I have a couple of questions:

1) Does this sound like a good idea?

2) Does anyone feel like pouring his/her troubleshooting skills into
   content for my program?

The program is still very immature (I skipped a lot of things that
weren't absolutely necessary for the program to show what it can do),
but that'll be fixed.

When given proper input, it generates HTML files that you can click 
through and that will hopefully lead you to (a solution to) your problem.
It has some sample content to show the format.

Maurice.


http://griffon26.kfk4ever.com/~griffon26/troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2
43f0042c802ad5ddcdf2a4db671c41c8 *troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2

-- 
Maurice van der Pot

Gentoo Linux Developer   griffon26@gentoo.org     http://www.gentoo.org
Creator of BiteMe!       griffon26@kfk4ever.com   http://www.kfk4ever.com


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Troubleshooters for Gentoo

[Caleb Cushing]

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> I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1) Does this sound like a good idea?
> 
> 2) Does anyone feel like pouring his/her troubleshooting skills into
>    content for my program?
1.) maybe microsofts troubleshooter sucks, it never solved a single problem I 
had. this will only be a good Idea if we're guaranteed to do better. on 
gentoo this would be harder than say red hat. because of almost infinite 
combinations of ways to have your software built.

2.) maybe... but I think you'll need someone before me. this is too unreliable 
too many variables / ways of doing things. first question do you use command 
line / gnome / kde /. answer use program x in this way to solver your 
problem. 

user huh. I don't have this program wtf. program x is not installed. checks 
portage. program x was hardmasked last week. this would be insane open source 
moves to fast good luck having your troubleshooter keep up.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Troubleshooters for Gentoo

[Roy Bamford]

On 2006.10.12 19:34, Maurice van der Pot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've noticed in the past that a lot of people come to irc with
> problems
> in some area (say networking) that are easy to solve just by first
> asking a number of questions to identify the problem and then
> providing
> the solution.
> 
> I've always liked the way Microsoft put these troubleshooters in their
> help files. While the content of Microsoft's troubleshooters probably
> never really helped anyone, the format of a troubleshooter is in my
> opinion one of the best ways to help people solve their own problems.
> 
> Now I've hacked up a program that can create a troubleshooter from
> specifications of questions and problems and their dependencies, but
> I'd
> need to have some decent content to really make it useful for other
> people.
> 
> I think having a couple of Gentoo-specific troubleshooters would be a
> great resource for new users (not just new to Gentoo, but new to
> Linux).
> 
> I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1) Does this sound like a good idea?
> 
> 2) Does anyone feel like pouring his/her troubleshooting skills into
>    content for my program?
> 
> The program is still very immature (I skipped a lot of things that
> weren't absolutely necessary for the program to show what it can do),
> but that'll be fixed.
> 
> When given proper input, it generates HTML files that you can click
> through and that will hopefully lead you to (a solution to) your
> problem.
> It has some sample content to show the format.
> 
> Maurice.
> 
> 
> http://griffon26.kfk4ever.com/~griffon26/troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2
> 43f0042c802ad5ddcdf2a4db671c41c8 *troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2
> 
> --
> Maurice van der Pot
> 
> Gentoo Linux Developer   griffon26@gentoo.org
> http://www.gentoo.org
> Creator of BiteMe!       griffon26@kfk4ever.com
> http://www.kfk4ever.com
> 
> 

Maurice,

Yes and yes, in response to your first two questions. I would like to  
discuss format and if a program is really required. As a frequent  
poster on the forums, I've noticed the same things come up time and  
time again. To make it easy for me to respond, I've posted some  
NeddySeagoons Rough Guides there, which I refer to. See the links at  
the bottom of this post.

Its always better to catch the problems before they arise, so I propose  
the addition of some checking steps to the handbook to allow users to  
confirm everything is OK before they proceed. Experts and overconfident  
users can skip them of course.

I'll give some examples - its not an exhaustive list.
1. Run the mount (no parameters) command prior to fetching a stage  
tarball. Its surprising how many users fetch a tarball and untar it  
RAM, having not mounted anything.

2. ls /mnt/gentoo/etc/resolv.conf Users use the wrong file name or  
don't copy it at all.

3. Check the tarball against /PRC/couping. Many IA32 users on <i686  
fetch an i686 tarball and get illegal instruction errors.

4. grub.Cong - compare file names in /boot with those in grub.Cong
Prevents Error 15

Of course - checks during install are only precautions. Whenever man  
makes a better mousetrap, mice get smarter. Errors will still occur  
that need to be fixed after the event.

Regards,

Roy Bamford
(NeddySeagoon)


Resuming an Install  
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3049166.html#3049166

Chrooting
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3385239.html#3385239
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3516331.html#3516331
Hmm - I wrote it twice and didn't spot it.

Fix Networking
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-2990710.html#2990710

Xorg Modelines
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3276263.html#3276263

Sneakernet
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3276263.html#3276263

IDE Kernel Config
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3492195.html#3492195
(Written for Intel Chipset < ICH6 but easy to expand)

I was thinking of trying to learn guide xml to offer some of the above  
as handbook updates.




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Troubleshooters for Gentoo

[Joshua Nichols]

Maurice van der Pot wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've noticed in the past that a lot of people come to irc with problems
> in some area (say networking) that are easy to solve just by first
> asking a number of questions to identify the problem and then providing
> the solution.
>
> I've always liked the way Microsoft put these troubleshooters in their
> help files. While the content of Microsoft's troubleshooters probably 
> never really helped anyone, the format of a troubleshooter is in my 
> opinion one of the best ways to help people solve their own problems.
>
> Now I've hacked up a program that can create a troubleshooter from
> specifications of questions and problems and their dependencies, but I'd
> need to have some decent content to really make it useful for other
> people.
>
> I think having a couple of Gentoo-specific troubleshooters would be a
> great resource for new users (not just new to Gentoo, but new to Linux).
>
> I have a couple of questions:
>
> 1) Does this sound like a good idea?
>
> 2) Does anyone feel like pouring his/her troubleshooting skills into
>    content for my program?
>
> The program is still very immature (I skipped a lot of things that
> weren't absolutely necessary for the program to show what it can do),
> but that'll be fixed.
>
> When given proper input, it generates HTML files that you can click 
> through and that will hopefully lead you to (a solution to) your problem.
> It has some sample content to show the format.
>
> Maurice.
>
>
> http://griffon26.kfk4ever.com/~griffon26/troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2
> 43f0042c802ad5ddcdf2a4db671c41c8 *troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2
>
>   
If I'm not mistaken, the kbase project was established to help with this 
type of information:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/kbase/

-- 
Joshua Nichols
Gentoo/Java Project Lead
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Troubleshooters for Gentoo

[Josh Saddler]

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Hash: SHA1

Joshua Nichols wrote:
> Maurice van der Pot wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've noticed in the past that a lot of people come to irc with problems
>> in some area (say networking) that are easy to solve just by first
>> asking a number of questions to identify the problem and then providing
>> the solution.
>>
>> I've always liked the way Microsoft put these troubleshooters in their
>> help files. While the content of Microsoft's troubleshooters probably
>> never really helped anyone, the format of a troubleshooter is in my
>> opinion one of the best ways to help people solve their own problems.
>>
>> Now I've hacked up a program that can create a troubleshooter from
>> specifications of questions and problems and their dependencies, but I'd
>> need to have some decent content to really make it useful for other
>> people.
>>
>> I think having a couple of Gentoo-specific troubleshooters would be a
>> great resource for new users (not just new to Gentoo, but new to Linux).
>>
>> I have a couple of questions:
>>
>> 1) Does this sound like a good idea?
>>
>> 2) Does anyone feel like pouring his/her troubleshooting skills into
>>    content for my program?
>>
>> The program is still very immature (I skipped a lot of things that
>> weren't absolutely necessary for the program to show what it can do),
>> but that'll be fixed.
>>
>> When given proper input, it generates HTML files that you can click
>> through and that will hopefully lead you to (a solution to) your problem.
>> It has some sample content to show the format.
>>
>> Maurice.
>>
>>
>> http://griffon26.kfk4ever.com/~griffon26/troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2
>> 43f0042c802ad5ddcdf2a4db671c41c8 *troubleshooter-0.0.2.tar.bz2
>>
>>   
> If I'm not mistaken, the kbase project was established to help with this
> type of information:
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/kbase/
> 
Well . . . almost. This "troubleshooters" sounds like a distant cousin of what
we originally set out to do. We didn't plan just to do troubleshooting -- more
like specific quick howtos that didn't necessarily need a whole guide. More "How
do I do this (amazingly obscure though it may be)" rather than "how do I fix
this problem sequentially" -- though there would obviously be fix-it howtos as
well. kbase was supposed to be the gathering place for information that really
didn't belong in a guide in /doc/en/ for one reason or another...like collecting
all the tips'n'tricks from the DT&T forum.

At the very least, Troubleshooters is not remotely the format kbase was planning
on using, as it wouldn't be effective.
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