[gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Alec Warner]

"A project exists if it has a web page at www.g.o/proj/en/whatever that
is maintained. ("Maintained" means that the information on the page is
factually correct and not out-of-date.) If the webpage isn't maintained,
it is presumed dead."

I'm not trying to pick on any projects.  Some pages are out of date but
look ok ( like catalyst!  Thats an old page! but i know you are writing
2.0 docs soon ;)).  I'm used my own descretion in picking out projects
(including projects for which I am a member).  Very few are dead, mostly
just listing retired devs as active.

Gentoo/MIPS, your project page needs updates (last updated 2005, by the
looks of things).  Your page also lists retired developers (Ciaran).[1]

Gentoo/PPC64, you also need to update your website (last updated 2005)[2]

Gentoo/Sparc, some of your developers were retired (todd,cjr)[3]

Eselect, your project pages lists retired developers (Ciaran).[4]

GLEP - I actually e-mailed Grant a bunch of updates and I'm waiting for
those to get done ;)

Portage/Sandbox - I say we just remove this, afaik no development has
happened in a long time.[5]

Installer - I know you guys have news, post some tidbits ;)[6]

kernel/security - Your page is bare, and lists brix as a member, he
resigned months ago.  Unless you feel this page is useful to some
people, I'm not sure what good it does.[7]

Gentoo/Status - Oh the irony ;) many of the projects listed never
updated their webpages, hopefully this mail will encourage some, lest I
just cvs rm -f their project pages for lack of updates ;)  no updates
for 4 months.[8]

Gentoo/QA - You have no lead, and your pages list retired developers
(Halcy0n).[9]

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/mips/index.xml
[2] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/ppc64/index.xml
[3] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/sparc/index.xml
[4] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/eselect/index.xml
[5] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/sandbox/index.xml
[6] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/installer/index.xml
[7] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/security/kernel.xml
[8] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/userrel/gentoostatus/index.xml
[9] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/index.xml
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Danny van Dyk]

Am Mittwoch, 30. August 2006 14:26 schrieb Alec Warner:

> Eselect, your project pages lists retired developers (Ciaran).[4]
Ciaran is the original Author, and he still helps more than ocassionally 
with problems and bugs. I won't remove him from that page.

As precedences, the Gentoo Handbook list of authors contains former 
Gentoo devs.

Danny
-- 
Danny van Dyk <kugelfang@gentoo.org>
Gentoo/AMD64 Project, Gentoo Scientific Project
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Alec Warner]

Danny van Dyk wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 30. August 2006 14:26 schrieb Alec Warner:
> 
>> Eselect, your project pages lists retired developers (Ciaran).[4]
> Ciaran is the original Author, and he still helps more than ocassionally 
> with problems and bugs. I won't remove him from that page.
> 
> As precedences, the Gentoo Handbook list of authors contains former 
> Gentoo devs.
> 
> Danny

The only problem is that it lists him as contactable by
"nickname@gentoo.org" aka ciaran@gentoo.org which is false.

I've actually wondered about this as well since I've been in projects as
a non-dev and Treecleaners has non-devs.  Can we get some kind of
modification to the <dev> tag for non-gentoo contributors?

I would agree with you that removing him would be immensely inconsiderate.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 09:32:32AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
> The only problem is that it lists him as contactable by
> "nickname@gentoo.org" aka ciaran@gentoo.org which is false.

Also the whole section is called "Developers", not "people who once
contributed but aren't developers any more or eventually they are,
well you never know for sure, just send an email and see if it
bounces". ;-)

> I've actually wondered about this as well since I've been in projects as
> a non-dev and Treecleaners has non-devs.  Can we get some kind of
> modification to the <dev> tag for non-gentoo contributors?

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/
Looks like a perfect example how to solve it to me - one section
listing the developers and one for contributors who aren't.

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Alec Warner]

Wernfried Haas wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 09:32:32AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
>> The only problem is that it lists him as contactable by
>> "nickname@gentoo.org" aka ciaran@gentoo.org which is false.
> 
> Also the whole section is called "Developers", not "people who once
> contributed but aren't developers any more or eventually they are,
> well you never know for sure, just send an email and see if it
> bounces". ;-)
> 
>> I've actually wondered about this as well since I've been in projects as
>> a non-dev and Treecleaners has non-devs.  Can we get some kind of
>> modification to the <dev> tag for non-gentoo contributors?
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/
> Looks like a perfect example how to solve it to me - one section
> listing the developers and one for contributors who aren't.
> 
> cheers,
> 	Wernfried
> 

Damn you for using my project page against me! :P  Phreak wrote that
part actually ;)  I was hoping for a more graceful solution than
separate sections.  At least with regards to cleaners, there are no
"better" people because they are developers.  Only "people with commit
access to fix stuff" and "people who don't have commit access." is
really the only (useful) distinction.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:11:10AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
> Damn you for using my project page against me! :P 
<insert evil laughter here>

> Phreak wrote that
> part actually ;)  I was hoping for a more graceful solution than
> separate sections.  

As far i am concerned, i find seperate sections quite good as it's a
clear solution as it's easy to see who is an official Gentoo monkey
who did all the quiz stuff etc. May be subject to personal taste though. 

> At least with regards to cleaners, there are no
> "better" people because they are developers.  Only "people with commit
> access to fix stuff" and "people who don't have commit access." is
> really the only (useful) distinction.

Fair enough. The real contribution is still about doing the work.

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Simon Stelling]

Wernfried Haas wrote:
> As far i am concerned, i find seperate sections quite good as it's a
> clear solution as it's easy to see who is an official Gentoo monkey
> who did all the quiz stuff etc. May be subject to personal taste though. 

Well, yeah, it just makes we wonder what the fuck an ebuild quiz has to
do with a bash framework, as in this example? Really, the ebuild quiz is
cool for ebuild maintainers, so you at least know about some common
mistakes, but it does nothing beyond that.

Simply spoken: You can use them as indicator for _nothing_, i.e. it's
completely unimportant whether you did the quizzes or not. IMO, at least.

-- 
Kind Regards,

Simon Stelling
Gentoo/AMD64 developer
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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Alec Warner]

Simon Stelling wrote:
> Wernfried Haas wrote:
>> As far i am concerned, i find seperate sections quite good as it's a
>> clear solution as it's easy to see who is an official Gentoo monkey
>> who did all the quiz stuff etc. May be subject to personal taste though. 
> 
> Well, yeah, it just makes we wonder what the fuck an ebuild quiz has to
> do with a bash framework, as in this example? Really, the ebuild quiz is
> cool for ebuild maintainers, so you at least know about some common
> mistakes, but it does nothing beyond that.
> 
> Simply spoken: You can use them as indicator for _nothing_, i.e. it's
> completely unimportant whether you did the quizzes or not. IMO, at least.
> 

Moreso for me it lists people as having @gentoo e-mail addresses, which
is incorrect.  I think perhaps listing their e-mail in a seperate field
and dropping the "nickname@gentoo.org", such that for contributors we
can list alternate addresses.
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[gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 39 compliance

[Ryan Hill]

Wernfried Haas wrote:
> As far i am concerned, i find seperate sections quite good as it's a
> clear solution as it's easy to see who is an official Gentoo monkey
> who did all the quiz stuff etc. May be subject to personal taste though. 

Some of the unofficial monkeys have also done the quiz stuff etc. ;) 
But yeah, I like the dev / contributor separation myself.

--de.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Christian Heim]

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On Wednesday, 30. August. 2006 16:36, Wernfried Haas wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 09:32:32AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
> > The only problem is that it lists him as contactable by
> > "nickname@gentoo.org" aka ciaran@gentoo.org which is false.
>
> Also the whole section is called "Developers", not "people who once
> contributed but aren't developers any more or eventually they are,
> well you never know for sure, just send an email and see if it
> bounces". ;-)
>
> > I've actually wondered about this as well since I've been in projects as
> > a non-dev and Treecleaners has non-devs.  Can we get some kind of
> > modification to the <dev> tag for non-gentoo contributors?
>
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/treecleaners/
> Looks like a perfect example how to solve it to me - one section
> listing the developers and one for contributors who aren't.

If you take a look at the plain XML, you'll see that's a custom made table. As 
Alec suggested it would be nice to have a modified version of the <dev>-tag 
(accepting something like role="contributor" and according to that listing 
them separately) or an extra tag like <contrib> for example.

-- 
Christian Heim <phreak at gentoo.org>
GPG key ID: 9A9F68E6
Fingerprint: AEC4 87B8 32B8 4922 B3A9 DF79 CAE3 556F 9A9F 68E6

Your friendly treecleaner/mobile/kernel/vserver/openvz monkey

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Wernfried Haas]

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On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 05:18:00PM +0200, Christian Heim wrote:
> If you take a look at the plain XML, you'll see that's a custom made table. As 
> Alec suggested it would be nice to have a modified version of the <dev>-tag 
> (accepting something like role="contributor" and according to that listing 
> them separately) or an extra tag like <contrib> for example.

Ah, i had not realized that. In that case it surely would make sense
to implement that globally - be it a seperate table or a contributor
tag (whatever people think is better).

cheers,
	Wernfried

-- 
Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org
Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org
IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Xavier Neys]

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Alec Warner wrote:
> Danny van Dyk wrote:
>> Am Mittwoch, 30. August 2006 14:26 schrieb Alec Warner:
>>
>>> Eselect, your project pages lists retired developers (Ciaran).[4]
>> Ciaran is the original Author, and he still helps more than ocassionally 
>> with problems and bugs. I won't remove him from that page.
>>
>> As precedences, the Gentoo Handbook list of authors contains former 
>> Gentoo devs.

Not just the handbook. Whenever any dev retires, all docs which he is credited
in should be updated with his new email, or no @gentoo.org email.
This has been mentioned on #gentoo-doc a few weeks ago.
Using the roll-call to replace the @gentoo.org email of a retired dev with his
new one or no email is on my todo list.

>> Danny
> 
> The only problem is that it lists him as contactable by
> "nickname@gentoo.org" aka ciaran@gentoo.org which is false.
> 
> I've actually wondered about this as well since I've been in projects as
> a non-dev and Treecleaners has non-devs.  Can we get some kind of
> modification to the <dev> tag for non-gentoo contributors?

Atm, using the <dev> implies the dev is listed in the roll-call.
The status can be tested to perform s/Member/Retired/
A fourth column with the email instead of the hardcoded text "All developers
can be reached by e-mail using nickname@gentoo.org." below the table is a
trivial thing to do.
Extending dev with something like
<dev role="Contributor" nick="fnord" email="foo.bar@fnord.tv">Mr. Foo
Bar</dev> would be no problem.

> I would agree with you that removing him would be immensely inconsiderate.

Once you guys have made up your mind, please do file a bug for me as I tend to
not read much of -dev. Thanks.


Wkr,
-- 
/  Xavier Neys
\_ Gentoo Documentation Project
/
/\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/


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[gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 39 compliance

[Duncan]

Danny van Dyk <kugelfang@gentoo.org> posted
200608301554.14216.kugelfang@gentoo.org, excerpted below, on  Wed, 30 Aug
2006 15:54:14 +0200:

> Am Mittwoch, 30. August 2006 14:26 schrieb Alec Warner:
> 
>> Eselect, your project pages lists retired developers (Ciaran).[4]
> Ciaran is the original Author, and he still helps more than ocassionally 
> with problems and bugs. I won't remove him from that page.
> 
> As precedences, the Gentoo Handbook list of authors contains former 
> Gentoo devs.

Shouldn't he be listed as author, then, not as dev?  As original author,
he arguably deserves top billing, so don't take that away from him, but a
box listing him as original author (and perhaps continuing contributor or
the like), with the current devs in a separate box below, would both
maintain credit where credit is due and eliminate confusion.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance

[Brian Harring]

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On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:26:41AM -0400, Alec Warner wrote:
> "A project exists if it has a web page at www.g.o/proj/en/whatever that
> is maintained. ("Maintained" means that the information on the page is
> factually correct and not out-of-date.) If the webpage isn't maintained,
> it is presumed dead."
> 
> I'm not trying to pick on any projects.  Some pages are out of date but
> look ok ( like catalyst!  Thats an old page! but i know you are writing
> 2.0 docs soon ;)).  I'm used my own descretion in picking out projects
> (including projects for which I am a member).  Very few are dead, mostly
> just listing retired devs as active.
> 
> Gentoo/MIPS, your project page needs updates (last updated 2005, by the
> looks of things).  Your page also lists retired developers (Ciaran).[1]
> 
> Gentoo/PPC64, you also need to update your website (last updated 2005)[2]
> 
> Gentoo/Sparc, some of your developers were retired (todd,cjr)[3]
> 
> Eselect, your project pages lists retired developers (Ciaran).[4]
> 
> GLEP - I actually e-mailed Grant a bunch of updates and I'm waiting for
> those to get done ;)
> 
> Portage/Sandbox - I say we just remove this, afaik no development has
> happened in a long time.[5]

Granted, az hasn't updated the page ever, but sandbox development 
certainly ain't dead- fresh release within last two months.

~brian

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