From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1GGhpp-00084p-Ne for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:59:22 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with SMTP id k7PJwX2A001131; Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:58:33 GMT Received: from HOUMAIL003.corp.halliburton.com (houmail003.halliburton.com [34.254.16.15]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k7PJubFJ021757 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:56:38 GMT Received: from HOUEXGR003.corp.halliburton.com (houexgr003.corp.halliburton.com [34.224.32.249]) by HOUMAIL003.corp.halliburton.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k7PJquo7030902 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:57:54 -0500 Received: from HOUEXCH079.corp.halliburton.com ([34.224.34.119]) by HOUEXGR003.corp.halliburton.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:51:34 -0500 Received: from localhost ([34.224.38.205]) by HOUEXCH079.corp.halliburton.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:51:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:49:36 -0500 From: Grant Goodyear To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Democracy: No silver bullet Message-ID: <20060825194933.GE27520@feynman.corp.halliburton.com> Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <44ECF00D.7050107@gentoo.org> <20060824145416.13761551@snowdrop.home> <1156458543.19720.57.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <20060825171359.GB15870@superlupo.rechner> <1156530953.8585.56.camel@inertia.twi-31o2.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8X7/QrJGcKSMr1RN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1156530953.8585.56.camel@inertia.twi-31o2.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Aug 2006 19:51:34.0411 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE639DB0:01C6C87F] X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlx=0 adultscore=0 adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=3.1.0-0608080000 definitions=main-0608250003 X-Archives-Salt: fb89f8ba-a702-4c5d-961a-62a3930bb2d5 X-Archives-Hash: e57d4d7aa2defeaa666263ea618928ba --8X7/QrJGcKSMr1RN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Gianelloni wrote: [Fri Aug 25 2006, 01:35:53PM CDT] > See, you missed that we're talking with the idea of people belonging to > a project. If you work on my project and quit, I'll know. If you go > AWOL, I'll know. I can then simply ask Infra to remove your access. It > really should be that simple. =20 Unless I'm missing something, for your vision to pan out we would need=20 a comprehensive project structure with every package and every aspect of Gentoo development being part of a project that has an active and competent lead. One of the things that doomed the previous management system was the fact that project leads who are both competent _and_ active tend to be in short supply. (It's the _active_ part that really tends to be the bigger problem. Real life does tend to interfere, and at least in the past we have lacked a good way to efficiently replace=20 project leads who become less active.) > If Infra is unable to do so due to being understaffed, then they > should get more staff. That's a bit like saying that if you can't afford something, you should get more money. It's a true statement, but it somehow ignores the fact that doing so may be difficult. *Shrug* The last time I asked infra about this, Kurt told me that their retention rate for new folks is extremely low due. > There are countless projects out there, many with many more developers > than Gentoo, that are capable of maintaining themselves quite well. > Why are we so different? Perhaps because we compartmentalize rather less than most? How many people working on KDE are working on a broad swath of KDE? Yet it is common for Gentoo devs to be part of several different projects while maintaining packages all across the tree. Moreover, that's the case not due to historical accident but to design: A gentoo dev w/ CVS rights has the power to do (almost) anything. Originally that level of flexibility was intended to allow a very small number of people to=20 reinforce each other, but even now it is something that sets Gentoo apart. My guess is that it also makes Gentoo devs less willing to pigeon-hole themselves into a rigid project structure, but I don't really have any evidence of that. -g2boojum- --=20 Grant Goodyear=09 Gentoo Developer g2boojum@gentoo.org http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0 9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76 --8X7/QrJGcKSMr1RN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFE71RNptxxUuD2W3YRAgluAJ4/nVi00ve1NTkktO7+x8DUJPc+6wCcC6hz T4NmJiQ8RQhQR5au1E46S6M= =h5zS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8X7/QrJGcKSMr1RN-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list