[gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Grant Goodyear]

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Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
vote.

Incidentally, I'm currently serving as an election official since I'm
not running for a spot on the Council.  It would be good to have a
couple other people acting as officials, too.  Volunteers?

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Olivier Crete]

On Thu, 2006-10-08 at 10:57 -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
> but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
> open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
> log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
> into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
> vote.
> 
> Incidentally, I'm currently serving as an election official since I'm
> not running for a spot on the Council.  It would be good to have a
> couple other people acting as officials, too.  Volunteers?

I volunteer (again).. What's the status on the search for voting
software ?

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Grant Goodyear]

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Olivier Crete wrote: [Thu Aug 10 2006, 11:42:14AM CDT]
> On Thu, 2006-10-08 at 10:57 -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> I volunteer (again).. What's the status on the search for voting
> software ?

Well, fmccor has suggested STV[1], so the current plan is to use
"countify" to assemble the usual master ballot, and then write some
sort of glue script that will take the master ballot and transform
it into whatever STV needs.  Of course, the glue bit still needs to be
written.

[1] http://stv.sourceforge.net/

Thanks!
-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Ferris McCormick]

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On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 21:49 +0200, Danny van Dyk wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 10. August 2006 18:51 schrieb Grant Goodyear:
> > Olivier Crete wrote: [Thu Aug 10 2006, 11:42:14AM CDT]
> >
> > > On Thu, 2006-10-08 at 10:57 -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> > > I volunteer (again).. What's the status on the search for voting
> > > software ?
> >
> > Well, fmccor has suggested STV[1], so the current plan is to use
> > "countify" to assemble the usual master ballot, and then write some
> > sort of glue script that will take the master ballot and transform
> > it into whatever STV needs.  Of course, the glue bit still needs to
> > be written.
> Hm, i see a problem here. IIRC STV expects one line of input per ballot, 
> which lists all candidates sperated by spaces. Now, per votifiy, 
> developers can put more than one developer per line, if they deem them 
> to be equally competent. Isn't that incompatible behaviour?
> 

Yes, but if we use STV (and there are issues with it if Condorcet is a
requirement, because Condorcet is really designed to pick one winner,
and it takes some extra work to get a ranking), I have a tiny ruby
script which can take any number of raw ballots and convert them into
one (internal form) STV .blt file.  (The "equally competent" part might
be another problem with STV, but I have to go back and look at it
carefully to verify that.)

So the "glue" is rather easy; problem is the specific balloting method.
STV supports several protocols for selecting some number of winners from
a list of candidates, but Condorcet is not among them, because Condorcet
is really a "pick single winner" method.

(By the way, if the ballots from council2005 are still around, and if
someone can make them anonymous (convert names to something like C1, C2,
etc.), I can take them and show what results STV would give, if you'd
like a controlled test.)

Anyone having better information than I have, please correct my mistakes
here.

> Danny
> -- 
> Danny van Dyk <kugelfang@gentoo.org>
> Gentoo/AMD64 Project, Gentoo Scientific Project

Regards,
Ferris
-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:03:26 +0000 Ferris McCormick <fmccor@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| So the "glue" is rather easy; problem is the specific balloting
| method. STV supports several protocols for selecting some number of
| winners from a list of candidates, but Condorcet is not among them,
| because Condorcet is really a "pick single winner" method.

All you need to do is delete the single winner from the election and
repeat the process.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail            : ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk


-- 
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Ferris McCormick]

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On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 21:11 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:03:26 +0000 Ferris McCormick <fmccor@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> | So the "glue" is rather easy; problem is the specific balloting
> | method. STV supports several protocols for selecting some number of
> | winners from a list of candidates, but Condorcet is not among them,
> | because Condorcet is really a "pick single winner" method.
> 
> All you need to do is delete the single winner from the election and
> repeat the process.
> 

True.  I was hoping no one would notice, however, because that gets
tedious  (although once you have the ballots, it can be automated to a
large extent).  At some point, we should re-examine policy and run some
controls to see if a voting method more closely designed for what we are
actually doing might be more appropriate.

In the middle of a voting cycle is probably not the right time for that,
though, no matter what makes things easiest for me.

> -- 
> Ciaran McCreesh
> Mail            : ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
> 
> 
Thanks, I guess :),
Ferris
-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Ferris McCormick]

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On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 20:24 +0000, Ferris McCormick wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 21:11 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:03:26 +0000 Ferris McCormick <fmccor@gentoo.org>
> > wrote:
> > | So the "glue" is rather easy; problem is the specific balloting
> > | method. STV supports several protocols for selecting some number of
> > | winners from a list of candidates, but Condorcet is not among them,
> > | because Condorcet is really a "pick single winner" method.
> > 
> > All you need to do is delete the single winner from the election and
> > repeat the process.
> > 
> 
> True.  I was hoping no one would notice, however, because that gets
> tedious  (although once you have the ballots, it can be automated to a
> large extent).  At some point, we should re-examine policy and run some
> controls to see if a voting method more closely designed for what we are
> actually doing might be more appropriate.
> 

Thanks to a pointer from Jan Kundrát, I have been able to build a master
STV ballot from last year's council ballots.  I had previously failed to
note the "Eliminate candidates..." option to STV. But having noticing
it, I am able to follow Ciaran's suggestion and run repeated Condorcet
cycles over last year's ballot until 7 members are selected.  Running
STV in this manner selects the same council as we did elect.

Total effort --- perhaps 15 minutes work for a new election (I have
scripts which will build a master ballot from a collection of individual
ballots, and from that the effort is minimal --- say, 60 seconds total
if you are slow.)

So, my "tedious" comment is someplace between misleading and wrong.

I note in passing that NO voting method designed to select a set of
several winners at once for this sort of election chooses quite the same
winners as repeated application of Condorcet does. The deterministic one
do agree with each other, however, on a slightly different set of
winners.  At some point after this year's election we should follow up
on this.

Regards,
Ferris

-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Jan Kundrát]

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Ferris McCormick wrote:
> (By the way, if the ballots from council2005 are still around, and if
> someone can make them anonymous (convert names to something like C1, C2,
> etc.), I can take them and show what results STV would give, if you'd
> like a controlled test.)

Please see the following -core mail. If you don't have it, it's at
~jkt/gentoo-core-20050901120915.GF11365 on woodpecker.

Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:09:15 -0500
From: Grant Goodyear <g2boojum@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-core@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-core] Election results
Message-ID: <20050901120915.GF11365@dst.grantgoodyear.org>

Cheers,
-jkt

-- 
cd /local/pub && more beer > /dev/mouth


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Thierry Carrez]

Olivier Crete wrote:

> I volunteer (again).. What's the status on the search for voting
> software ?

We follow two trails : fixing countify or find something else. I'll have
a look at countify, but more monkey eyeballs can't hurt.

We didn't find a good alternative yet, so you can also help in that area.

-- 
Koon
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Christel Doty]

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On Thu, 2006-08-10 at 10:57 -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
> but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
> open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
> log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
> into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
> vote.
> 
> Incidentally, I'm currently serving as an election official since I'm
> not running for a spot on the Council.  It would be good to have a
> couple other people acting as officials, too.  Volunteers?

Sure, just let me know what you need me to do Grant :)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Grant Goodyear]

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Christel Doty wrote: [Thu Aug 10 2006, 12:34:50PM CDT]
> Sure, just let me know what you need me to do Grant :)

Thanks!  Um, I'm not quite sure what's going to be needed just yet,
but I'll keep you informed.

-g2boojum-

PS.  With three election officials, we probably have enough now.
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:57:14AM -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
> but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
> open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
> log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
> into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
> vote.

What is the current "election" name that we should use when running
votify?

thanks,

greg k-h
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Mike Doty]

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Greg KH wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:57:14AM -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
>> Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
>> but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
>> open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
>> log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
>> into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
>> vote.
> 
> What is the current "election" name that we should use when running
> votify?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> greg k-h
council2006


- --
=======================================================
Mike Doty                      kingtaco -at- gentoo.org
Gentoo/AMD64 Strategic Lead
Gentoo Developer Relations
Gentoo Recruitment Lead
Gentoo Infrastructure
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Jeroen Roovers]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:42:47 -0700
Greg KH <gregkh@gentoo.org> wrote:

> What is the current "election" name that we should use when running
> votify?

> > To vote, log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for
> > instructions.

Doing that explained everything. :)


Kind regards,
     JeR
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Greg KH]

On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 08:00:25PM +0200, Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:42:47 -0700
> Greg KH <gregkh@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > What is the current "election" name that we should use when running
> > votify?
> 
> > > To vote, log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for
> > > instructions.
> 
> Doing that explained everything. :)

Well, the name scrolled off the top of the screen, sorry for being dense
this early in the morning :)

greg k-h
-- 
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Grant Goodyear]

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Greg KH wrote: [Thu Aug 10 2006, 12:42:47PM CDT]
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:57:14AM -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> > Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
> > but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
> > open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
> > log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
> > into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
> > vote.
> 
> What is the current "election" name that we should use when running
> votify?

"council2006"

For those who are likely to forget, "votify --help" will actually tell
you the names of the elections that are currently open (although that
information shows up above the "Instructions", making it easy to skip
over).

-g2boojum-
-- 
Grant Goodyear	
Gentoo Developer
g2boojum@gentoo.org
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
GPG Fingerprint: D706 9802 1663 DEF5 81B0  9573 A6DC 7152 E0F6 5B76

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Konstantin V. Arkhipov]

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On Thursday 10 August 2006 21:42, Greg KH wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 10:57:14AM -0500, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> > Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
> > but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
> > open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
> > log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
> > into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
> > vote.
>
> What is the current "election" name that we should use when running
> votify?

council2006

-- 
voxus
:wq

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Curtis Napier]

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Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
> but that's no reason not to start collecting them.  The polls are now
> open, and will remain so until 0000 UTC 20060911 (one month).  To vote,
> log into dev.g.o and type "votify --help" for instructions.  If you run
> into any problems, please let me know.  All current devs are eligible to
> vote.


**All current devs are eligible to vote.**

This includes Staff as well. Staff is anyone with an @gentoo.org address
who doesn't have commit access to the ebuild tree. People like Forums,
Bug Wranglers, Infra, Devrel, Userrel, etc...


- --Curtis



ps. thanks for getting the election process going and staying on top of
it Grant. We all appreciate it.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Council polls now open

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Thursday 10 August 2006 11:57, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Well, we don't yet have reliable software in place to _count_ votes,
> but that's no reason not to start collecting them.

once we've settled, it'd be good to upload the scripts we actually used to the 
council voting section
-mike

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