From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1G7QlV-0007Il-L6 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:56:34 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with SMTP id k6V5tiZk016095; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:55:44 GMT Received: from smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.6]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.7/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6V5roXu030666 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:53:50 GMT Received: from [172.23.170.144] (helo=anti-virus03-07) by smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G7Qis-0000UA-MN for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:53:50 +0100 Received: from [82.41.57.20] (helo=snowdrop.home) by asmtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1G7Qis-0000Hm-6I for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:53:50 +0100 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:53:47 +0100 From: Ciaran McCreesh To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Project Sunrise resumed again (was Resignation) Message-ID: <20060731065347.0bf73f47@snowdrop.home> In-Reply-To: <1154324322.10141.6.camel@localhost> References: <200607301751.14157.vapier@gentoo.org> <20060730230757.5c17c0e9@snowdrop.home> <200607302219.56872.vapier@gentoo.org> <46059ce10607301928g2ddf667q326d930ffacb81b9@mail.gmail.com> <1154313772.11516.7.camel@localhost> <20060731035316.74ba21ed@snowdrop.home> <1154322337.11516.34.camel@localhost> <20060731063003.2a5f018a@snowdrop.home> <1154324322.10141.6.camel@localhost> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.3.1 (GTK+ 2.8.20; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: f9dc79de-7b49-429d-9425-da4d9641c8da X-Archives-Hash: 07e64ba5e687d1ae1be344b4ad4a9876 On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:38:42 -0400 Seemant Kulleen wrote: | On Mon, 2006-07-31 at 06:30 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | > Their commit history backs it up all by itself. | | Ppint to specifically what, in their respective histories, proves your | case. This is like pulling teeth. No, the question is what in their respective histories refutes it. And the answer here is nothing. QA ability isn't something that's assumed, it's something that has to be demonstrated. | > | Where is this code being pushed to, exactly? | > | > Users. | | Please note the difference between pulling and pushing. Pushing | implies that people who don't want sunrise on their systems have to | have it and have to use it. This is not the case. So, again, where | is this code being *pushed* to, exactly? http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20060619-newsletter.xml | > The correct way to push through a large change is part of the | > developer quiz. There's no excuse for anyone not knowing it. | | Was it really a *large change* that they pushed through? They haven't | altered the way anybody does things. Any developer or user going | about their normal business does not even have to *think* about | sunrise. Not that large a change, after all. Any developer going about their normal business now has to worry about an officially approved BMGalike, and whether it's causing the bugs they're receiving. Any developer going about their normal business now has to worry about people who know little about the packages they maintain pushing out content that would ordinarily be covered by their herd to users via a back route. | > Would you fly in a plane being piloted by Britney Spears? | | What do I care what the pilot's name is? You care whether or not the pilot knows how to fly a plane. | And how is that relevant to | the discussion, when you've yet to actually show why any of the | Sunrise staff is unfit. To continue with the plane analogy, you don't assume that everyone can fly a plane until they disprove it by crashing one. | Furthermore, there were other questions I asked that you completely | removed from your reply. Please answer those as well. They're not relevant to this discussion. We're not discussing what the right solution is, we're discussing why Sunrise is the wrong solution. There's a hell of a difference -- as an illustration, most people could tell you why giving everybody nukes is the wrong way to get peace in the middle east, but very few could tell you what the right way is... -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail : ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list